The Strange Freedom of Living Elsewhere with Chris Ryan (Re-Release)

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Hola, mis amigos y amigas.

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It's Jef.

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Hello.

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How are you doing?

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Are you doing well?

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Are you doing poorly?

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I hope you're doing very well.

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I hope you're thriving.

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As always, I use the word too often, but I think it's a great word, isn't it?

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Thrive, the T-H sound.

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It's a good one.

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It's Monday here in Mexico City.

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It's also Monday in United States of America and Canada and so forth and

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so on, but you under- you understand.

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I just want context for when I'm recording this.

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Monday at, uh, twelve twenty-five in the afternoon, August 3rd, perhaps.

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Si.

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Yo creo que si.

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This is the third re-released episode of onefjef, and I still haven't

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decided what I'm going to-- what episode I'm gonna re-release here.

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So it'll just be a surprise.

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So in…

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That's exciting for you and for me.

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It also gives me a, a good excuse not to talk about it in

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this, um, you know, prologue scenario, this introduction thing.

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So I, I won't have to do that because I don't know what it's gonna be.

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It'll be an episode that I've released with somebody or not.

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Maybe it'll just be me talking.

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I don't know.

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But it's gonna be good for sure because it's an episode of onefjef and as

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you all know by this point, every episode of onefjef is a wonderful

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episode of onefjef Except for one, but I'm not gonna tell you which one.

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They can't all be winners.

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Anyway, things in Mexico City are fine, if you're wondering.

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The weather's nice.

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It hasn't rained nearly as much as I was led to believe it would.

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Everybody said, "Oh, it rains so much in the summertime." And don't get me

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wrong, it's rained, but maybe this is a unusually light rainy season, but it

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has not rained every day by any means.

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Maybe it has, like, a tiny, tiny bit, but it's not been, like,

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schedule altering rain, right?

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And I'm kind of disappointed, to be honest, because I would-- I was

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kind of looking forward to schedule alter-altering rain, you know?

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And when it does rain, when there are these big storms that come through, I kind

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of enjoy it because, like, I can sit here in my apartment and look out the window

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and watch the rain pour down and it's very exciting, and lightning everywhere.

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Crazy electrical storms here when they happen.

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But I'm told that September, August are rainier months, although the

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metrics don't really support that.

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But we shall see.

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But it is fun here at my new apartment to be able to look out over the city and

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see the clouds developing into storms.

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It, like, satiates the little meteorologist in me.

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And it's interesting, I, I've yet to find a single app or website or anything

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that accurately has any seeming idea of what the weather's gonna be like here in

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Mexico City on any, any particular day.

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The temperatures are, you know, right-ish, but the rain forecast,

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it's like nobody has any idea.

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And I know there's still Doppler radar here, but not nearly as much.

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And I guess I didn't really appreciate how much more weather infrastructure there is

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in the United States and I guess Canada.

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I don't know, maybe.

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Or maybe I'm wrong about that, but I get the impression there's not nearly

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as much weather infrastructure here, and I don't know if infrastructure is

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the right word, but I'm going with it.

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I think it's also just a very difficult place, Mexico City, to forecast the

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weather because it's, you know, we're at seventy-two hundred feet, seventy-four

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hundred feet, and surrounded by mountains.

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So I think it's somewhat unpredictable, and I think that depending on where

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you are living, the forecast could be correct that day or could not

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be, because I think it's very-- It's like San Francisco in that sense.

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It's very hyper local.

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Like, it could be pouring rain, like, ten blocks away and be beautiful.

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Not beautiful, but cloudy right where I am.

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So

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But there have been a few nights where it's just been like, I think it was like

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four or five nights ago, it was just like raining all night, lightning, thunder.

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I loved it.

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I loved it

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So who knows?

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But the words rainy season, the descriptor rainy season does not

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feel accurate to me to describe the summer in Mexico City at this point.

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Like, yes, it does rain, but it doesn't feel like a rainy season per se because

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it doesn't rain until 5, 6, 7, 8 o'clock.

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And during the day, right now, it's beautiful blue sky, sunny.

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I mean, it's gorgeous out, 75 degrees, whatever.

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What, like 22, 23 Celsius, something like that?

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Yeah.

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And I'm indoors.

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And that's a paradox I've learned to live with, not a paradox.

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I think I overuse that word.

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It's a thing that I've had to get used to.

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And that is that I think I've mentioned this, but when I was living in Ohio,

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the weather in Ohio is very changing.

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One day it'll be cloudy.

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One day it'll be sunny.

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One day it'll be whatever, rainy, whatever it is, snowy.

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So when it's a sunny day, when it's a beautiful sunny day and you get up, you're

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like, well, I'm going to go out and do something because it's a beautiful day.

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But here, it's a beautiful sunny day almost every day when you wake up.

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So it's like you have to get over this weird guilt that you feel.

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Maybe it's just me from Ohio.

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But it's like, I feel like every time I'm inside when it's beautiful that I

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should be out there doing something, enjoying the wonderful weather.

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But it's every day.

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So I wonder how people like in LA feel about it because I feel like it's

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the similar weather situation in LA.

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I'll have to talk to some people from LA about this.

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I went to a Time Left dinner.

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Does anybody know what Time Left is?

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I'm sure some of you do.

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Time Left is this, uh, app that came out, I don't know, two, three,

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four years ago, and I did it in Columbus, Ohio, when I was there.

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It's basically like you sign up for the app and you, uh, they-- You sign up for

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a dinner and they basically just put you with like five other people, strangers.

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It's dinner with strangers.

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But you're like grouped together by, you know, profession or whatever, not

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the same to keep it interesting, right?

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And I did like, I don't know, two or three or four in Columbus, and they were fine.

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They were fine.

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It wasn't like mind-blowing.

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I didn't meet any like lifelong friends, but it was interesting.

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So then they have it here now, and my friend did it here and

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she was like, "Oh, it was great.

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We hung out all night." So I was like, "Oh, I should try that when I get

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back." So I signed up for one of the dinners and I went-- This was last week.

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And, uh, you know, you can put your language preference, so

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I just put Spanish and English because I kind of know Spanish.

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Not very well, but I kind of do.

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I ended up getting grouped for dinner with everybody, all, all Mexican people who

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just spoke Spanish, so it was difficult.

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I didn't really understand a lot.

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I didn't communicate a lot.

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I understood a little, and some of them spoke a little English, so they would try.

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But they were all very impressed that I'd only been learning Spanish for about

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six months, so that made me feel good.

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But it's exhausting.

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That's the thing that I always remember.

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Trying to understand a different language, it makes your brain work like three or

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four times as hard, and you don't realize it until you're like an hour or two in

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and you're like, "Oh, I'm just fucking exhausted. I'm just exhausted from

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listening and trying to communicate in a language that I don't speak very well."

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I'm sure it gets easier, but, um, but it was still a fun dinner, more or less.

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Más o menos.

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I'm doing it again, but I signed up for English speaking, which I'm hoping means

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that there will be some people who speak a little Spanish so that, you know, it'd

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be nice to have language exchange, right?

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Anyway, I guess that's about it of what's going on here.

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Um, I mean, I could go on, but then we get into a whole full episode, and I

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don't even know what-- I still gotta figure out what episode I'm gonna

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be playing after I talk right now.

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But don't worry.

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I'll, I'll do it.

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I'll get through this.

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Anyway, "What do you have to do now, Jef?" I have to go return an Amazon

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package, and it's a great story, so I'll tell it to you before I go here.

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You know, I, I enjoy a smoothie in the morning.

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I do enjoy a smoothie, and my last apartment here had a, um, blender.

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And there was a blender here too, but the blender, when I tried to use it the first

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time, it did not… It worked, but the blending container had a profound leak in

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it, so it made a mess all over the floor.

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So I thought, "Well, what am I going to do? I cannot make a smoothie

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without a blender of some sort." So I went onto amazon.mx, which

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is interestingly not amazon.com.

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I mean, it's not-- I don't know how it's affiliated with Amazon.

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Amazon, I-- It's a strange partnership with Amazon Mexico, but doesn't matter.

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And I found…

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It's different products for sure.

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And so I found a, like a smoothie blender, like a small one, and I was like,

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"Oh, it's only, you know, 250 pesos." That's like, whatever, 20, 30 bucks.

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No, that's actually… No, it's only like 12 or $15.

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Wow, it was cheap.

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Well, that explains everything, doesn't it?

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Because it's a piece of crap.

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I got this thing, and it is a piece of absolute garbage to a

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degree that's like it shouldn't even have been made as a product.

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It's just a waste But some of the reviews, they seem happy.

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But then how can you-- You don't trust reviews anymore.

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Who trusts reviews, even in Mexico?

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And here's the funny thing.

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I wrote a review about this pla- thing, you know, for Amazon to warn other

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people because there weren't a ton of reviews, which was my mistake for buying

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a product with not a lot of reviews.

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But I thought I should warn other potential, you know, purchasers

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of this piece of crap blender.

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And this has happened twice now.

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And I wrote a pretty solid review.

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I mean, it was not nice because it's a piece of crap blender, so I was honest.

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And a few days later, I get an email from amazon.mx that says,

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"W-- Your review was rejected because it was, I think, too mean."

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Like, they don't allow really mean reviews on Mexican Amazon.

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So I'm just not gonna bother writing reviews anymore, but I am gonna return

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this piece of crap blender today.

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So that's exciting for me, and it's exciting for you, and it's not exciting

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for the blender company because they're probably getting a lot of returns

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based on the quality of their product.

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I imagine a lot of people just don't return it because it's only, you know,

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two hundred and fifty pesos, and they're like, "Well, whatever. It's-- Like, I

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don't have time to walk to the place where I have to get it returned at." But I do

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have time, and I'm gonna get my ten two hundred and fifty pesos back, damn it.

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The end of that story.

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Did you enjoy it?

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I hope you really did.

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And, um, finally, now that I'm thinking about it, I think I mentioned that I

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did hire a lawyer to try to recover my deposit from my last apartment.

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Uh, that was about two weeks ago.

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He sent a strongly worded legal letter demanding, you know, a

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demand letter, I guess they call it.

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And, um, m- no response to that at all.

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And then I emailed the lawyer, I guess it was last Monday, and was like, "Hey, what,

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what do we do now if he's not responding?" And he's like, "Okay, I'll call him.

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I'll try calling him." So I don't know what's going on, but it's

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not looking good, my friends.

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It's not looking like I may not-- It's looking like I may not get my

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deposit back, which is okay, but it makes me angry when the bad people win.

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And I'm not saying that my former landlord is a bad person necessarily,

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but in this case he is, and I don't like to be screwed over like that.

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'cause I'm legally right here.

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But the question becomes how much money do I spend to recover 21,000 pesos?

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I don't know.

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It's a decision I have to make.

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But for now, I'm just gonna play this wonderful from the archive,

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from the vault episode of onefjef.

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It's a great episode.

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It's one of my favorites.

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It's got highs, it's got lows, it's got sidewayses, and all sorts

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of different directions that I think you're really gonna enjoy.

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No, nay, I know you're going to enjoy it.

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You will.

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You will enjoy it.

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And I'll be back in about two weeks with a brand new episode of onefjef.

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Until then, continue thriving, my friends.

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Be well.

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Be happy.

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Take a deep breath and let that shit go How did you find out that these doctors

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were, like, sexually, um, like, open?

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By having sex with them.

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Fair, fair enough.

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That is fair enough.

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At least some of them.

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Okay.

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Case study.

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This is episode 28 of onefjef.

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28 sits at a strange crossroads, a perfect number that ancient mathematicians

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treated with awe, and the capstone of a four-cycle run long seen as

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the threshold into real adulthood.

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It shows up in the body's lunar-leaning 28-day rhythms that shaped early

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timekeeping and folk magic, and in Kabbalah, it matches Koch potential,

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giving 28 the feel of a quiet engine number, one that completes a cycle and

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hands you the power to move forward.

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Hello, my friends.

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Jef Taylor here, back in my makeshift recording studio here in Columbus, Ohio.

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I did not have a guest for this week's episode either, but fortunately, I

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heard from Chris Ryan earlier today, and he said he's going to release

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the episode that I recorded with him

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for his podcast tomorrow.

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And I asked him if he could send me the audio so I could release it on my

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podcast as well, and he graciously agreed.

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So I'm going to release this conversation on my podcast tomorrow because it is

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more of a conversation than it is an interview, and, uh, I think it suits

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both of our podcasts in that sense.

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So in a sense, my guest today is Chris Ryan.

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Chris Ryan is an author and podcaster best known for Sex at Dawn, where

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he argues that early humans lived far more cooperatively and less

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monogamously than we assume today.

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He has a PhD in psychology, a taste for dismantling tidy modern narratives,

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and a podcast called Tangentially Speaking, where he follows his

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curiosity into conversations about culture, evolution, and how mismatched

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we often are with the world we built.

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I'm truly grateful to have had the opportunity to meet and

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be on Chris Ryan's podcast.

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I've been a fan for, uh, several years, and, uh, yeah,

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it just kinda randomly happened.

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Life is random sometimes.

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Patreon subscribers, thank you so much.

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I appreciate your continued support as always.

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I'll be posting some more exclusive content for you in

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the next week or two or three.

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If you yourself would like to support the podcast, help me buy some more

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Christmas gifts, help me get by in this holiday season without a job,

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please go to patreon.com/onefjef and sign up for as little as $5 a month.

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$5 a month, that's nothing.

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But please don't use your iPhone to do it.

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Subscribe on the Patreon page because Apple takes 30% of all

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donations made through the Patreon app because Apple is greedy.

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Sorry, Apple, you are.

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I hope that doesn't hurt my algorithm.

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Help support the podcast, help support me, and get some exclusive content.

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Patreon.com/onefjef.

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Thank you very, very much.

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And now you can pause the podcast for a moment, go to your computer, and do that.

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Okay, thank you very much.

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Anyway, I hope you enjoy this conversation with Chris as much as I enjoyed having it.

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Thank you for listening.

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Thank you for being here.

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Here is me and Chris Ryan sitting outside his house in Crestone, Colorado,

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overlooking the San Luis Valley

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All right, ladies and gentlemen.

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Uh, I'm sitting in the morning sun here in Crestone, Colorado, with one Jef Jef.

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onefjef.

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onefjef, not one Jef Jef.

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onefjef

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Jef.

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onefjef Taylor.

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Uh, and this'll be an interesting podcast because I don't remember exactly

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what it is that I found so interesting about you when we met for a beer.

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But I do remember thinking, "Oh, I should do a podcast with that guy. He's

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interesting." I did watch your film.

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Oh, which one?

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Uh, didn't you send me Coverage?

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Coverage.

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Oh, the 9/11 one, yeah.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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I remember the quote.

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I wrote down the quote too.

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I remember there's a… You were asking me what, what inspired me to make

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that, and there was a Burroughs quote.

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What was it?

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Um, "Sexual arousal results from the repetition and, and impact of

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image." It's kind of a… And that and the movie Crash by Cronenberg.

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You ever see that one?

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People who get sexually aroused by car crashes.

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I've never seen that.

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Uh, it's quite… People hate it, but I actually loved it.

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Um, but it's not a well-liked Cronenberg film by any means.

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W- wasn't there a film called Crash that won the Oscar?

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Yeah, not that one.

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I've seen that one.

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Yeah, that was a controversial one.

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That was controversial.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But this one, uh, this one's controversial, but nobody saw

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it, so it can't be… I mean, they're like, you know, blood and

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semen mixing on the car seats.

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Right.

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The book's actually even better.

Speaker: 00:17:10

Cronenberg's a little intense.

Speaker: 00:17:12

He can be, sure.

Speaker: 00:17:13

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:17:14

Um, okay, but let's talk about that quote a little bit, 'cause

Speaker: 00:17:17

I, I watched the film and I was…

Speaker: 00:17:19

It, it's, it's very interesting.

Speaker: 00:17:21

It's a-

Speaker: 00:17:23

A couple… It opens with a, what seems to be erotic failure.

Speaker: 00:17:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:17:33

The guy can't get it up or can't come or something.

Speaker: 00:17:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:17:36

And so there's this sort of like impasse and awkwardness and all that, and then

Speaker: 00:17:41

9/11 happens, and he finds his mojo watching the Twin Towers come down,

Speaker: 00:17:48

and then the, you know, drama ensues.

Speaker: 00:17:53

But so Burroughs quote that, that eroticism or erotic charge comes

Speaker: 00:17:57

from repeated viewing of an image.

Speaker: 00:18:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, repetition and, uh, repetition and impact of image.

Speaker: 00:18:03

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:18:03

But, but what image?

Speaker: 00:18:05

Not just any old image.

Speaker: 00:18:07

Right.

Speaker: 00:18:08

Right?

Speaker: 00:18:08

Right.

Speaker: 00:18:08

I mean, an image of a naked woman, okay, uh, but… And also,

Speaker: 00:18:13

okay, so two, two, two things.

Speaker: 00:18:15

What kind of image, and also I would think that that would be less applicable

Speaker: 00:18:22

to women than to men, given that women's sexuality is less visual than men's.

Speaker: 00:18:28

Sure.

Speaker: 00:18:28

I agree with that.

Speaker: 00:18:29

I mean, I think it was that quote combined with the somewhat phallic

Speaker: 00:18:33

nature of the World Trade Center- Yeah … and the fact that they were

Speaker: 00:18:35

playing it, I mean, that week or two, I mean, it was all day, every day.

Speaker: 00:18:39

They were playing that footage.

Speaker: 00:18:41

America under attack.

Speaker: 00:18:41

I mean, it was unbelievable.

Speaker: 00:18:41

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:18:42

Um, like literally, the whole week you couldn't watch anything, but, but

Speaker: 00:18:45

the World- The fragmented statement appears to be referencing the widespread

Speaker: 00:18:47

media coverage following the September 11th- … 2001 attacks on the World

Speaker: 00:18:51

Trade Center, indicating that news related to the event- Fuck you.

Speaker: 00:18:54

Shut the fuck up What happened?

Speaker: 00:18:57

You gotta leave that in.

Speaker: 00:19:00

That's weird AI just chimes in.

Speaker: 00:19:02

That's weird.

Speaker: 00:19:03

It, it kept recording while that happened.

Speaker: 00:19:06

Well, I hope it got it.

Speaker: 00:19:08

That was very strange.

Speaker: 00:19:10

Ugh, okay.

Speaker: 00:19:11

Well, if, if it's recorded- … I guess we'll leave it.

Speaker: 00:19:15

Yeah, you gotta leave that one in.

Speaker: 00:19:16

Uh.

Speaker: 00:19:18

Fucking technology is jumping out.

Speaker: 00:19:21

AI is, AI's invading your podcast.

Speaker: 00:19:23

That's never happened before.

Speaker: 00:19:25

Uh, yeah, I was in Spain when it happened, so I didn't, I wasn't subjected to that.

Speaker: 00:19:31

Oh, well, good for you.

Speaker: 00:19:32

But it's interesting to think that the collapse of the World

Speaker: 00:19:35

Trade Center would be phallic.

Speaker: 00:19:37

I would think that would cause more erectile dysfunction than- Well, it's

Speaker: 00:19:41

than erectile.

Speaker: 00:19:42

Yeah, I guess that's, I guess that's a valid… They could probably make it

Speaker: 00:19:44

into some sort of an erectile dysfunction commercial if they really wanted to.

Speaker: 00:19:46

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:19:47

Do you remember, uh- Soon.

Speaker: 00:19:48

Soon … when they first opened the, um, the World Trade Center, the new museum,

Speaker: 00:19:52

the new tower- Yeah … and the museum in there, for the, the very beginning

Speaker: 00:19:55

they sold a, like, a, a United States shaped cheese platter, and it had,

Speaker: 00:19:59

like, the dots where the planes had hit.

Speaker: 00:20:03

On a cheese platter?

Speaker: 00:20:04

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:05

Yeah, they got rid of it pretty quickly.

Speaker: 00:20:07

I guess they're collector's items now.

Speaker: 00:20:10

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:20:10

It was very misguided.

Speaker: 00:20:11

How could, how could you collect a cheese platter?

Speaker: 00:20:13

That would- But I mean, just to use that 9/11 on a cheese platter, it

Speaker: 00:20:16

seems like if you bring that out at a party it's not gonna lift the mood.

Speaker: 00:20:19

It's gonna be like, "Oh, well, that's a…" Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:21

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:22

Uh, did you like the movie?

Speaker: 00:20:23

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:24

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:24

It, it, it was disturbing- Sure … certainly.

Speaker: 00:20:30

My mom liked it, which made me happy.

Speaker: 00:20:32

Oh, that's good.

Speaker: 00:20:33

My dad, not so much.

Speaker: 00:20:35

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:35

What was your dad's complaint?

Speaker: 00:20:37

He never really said… Like, he didn't really complain about it.

Speaker: 00:20:39

I think he was just troubled by just the whole thing.

Speaker: 00:20:43

My mom's quote was, that I'll always remember, she's like, "Honey, you nailed

Speaker: 00:20:46

it. You nailed it." And I was like, "Oh, I'll take that, Mom. I'll take

Speaker: 00:20:51

it." Uh- Well, what, uh… So what do you think, uh… To me it was, um, it

Speaker: 00:20:56

kind of, um, spoke to the Freudian, you know, Eros and Thanatos, the, the death

Speaker: 00:21:04

impulse and the erotic impulse- Sure

Speaker: 00:21:06

being intertwined.

Speaker: 00:21:07

Sure.

Speaker: 00:21:07

Sure.

Speaker: 00:21:08

Um, you know, and it made me think about when I worked in hospitals

Speaker: 00:21:13

in Spain, I found, um, you know, in Spain a lot of doctors are, are women.

Speaker: 00:21:20

Mm.

Speaker: 00:21:23

I found in, I really enjoyed working in hospitals and, and hanging

Speaker: 00:21:26

out with doctors because they seem to be uninhibited sexually.

Speaker: 00:21:33

Really?

Speaker: 00:21:33

And we talked about, like, "Why are you so uninhibited compared to the

Speaker: 00:21:37

normal Spanish person?" And generally, their take was when you're around

Speaker: 00:21:43

death, you lose sexual inhibition.

Speaker: 00:21:48

Huh.

Speaker: 00:21:49

That's interesting.

Speaker: 00:21:49

Because there's something about sex that's very … It's about life, right?

Speaker: 00:21:55

Right, right, right, right.

Speaker: 00:21:55

Eros is life force.

Speaker: 00:21:56

It's all there, yeah.

Speaker: 00:21:57

And so when you're around

Speaker: 00:22:01

death, there's an impulse to- Yeah … cultivate the life force.

Speaker: 00:22:02

Huh.

Speaker: 00:22:03

How did you find out that these doctors were, like, sexually, um, like, open?

Speaker: 00:22:09

By having sex with them.

Speaker: 00:22:11

Fair, fair enough.

Speaker: 00:22:12

That is fair enough.

Speaker: 00:22:14

At least some of them.

Speaker: 00:22:14

Like a case study.

Speaker: 00:22:16

The women.

Speaker: 00:22:17

Um, yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:19

No, I, I was doing research around, uh, I was doing a ph- a PhD research, uh,

Speaker: 00:22:27

where I was specifically studying, um, the doctors who deal with a lot of death.

Speaker: 00:22:33

So oncologists and emergent or, um, intensive care- Mm … physicians.

Speaker: 00:22:39

And so I was interviewing them and, and then I was teaching

Speaker: 00:22:43

English, so I would sp- I would, you know, focus my, uh, teaching.

Speaker: 00:22:48

So I'd, I'd take students who were working in specializations

Speaker: 00:22:52

that I found interesting.

Speaker: 00:22:53

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:22:54

And so I met a lot of them, and we talked a lot and, uh, um…

Speaker: 00:22:59

Yeah, it, it, it's interesting.

Speaker: 00:23:02

And then I've spoken to other people who, you know, talk

Speaker: 00:23:04

about war being very erotic.

Speaker: 00:23:07

Right, I could s- Um, you know … I see that

Speaker: 00:23:08

a- any kind of, anything where there's a lot of drama and, and, um,

Speaker: 00:23:14

life or death stuff seems to reduce inhibition and increase libido.

Speaker: 00:23:21

I shoulda had you come speak at one of the Q&As for the film.

Speaker: 00:23:24

You could have- … explained it better than I did.

Speaker: 00:23:26

Wow.

Speaker: 00:23:26

Uh, it's funny that m- That's just my take on that whole-

Speaker: 00:23:28

No, it's an interesting take.

Speaker: 00:23:29

Um, I had a lot of interesting reactions to that film.

Speaker: 00:23:33

Uh, the people that did walk out of the theater, um, people would write me.

Speaker: 00:23:36

I got, like, emails.

Speaker: 00:23:37

People would write me, and some people were, like, had, like… You know, once

Speaker: 00:23:41

you finish a film, it's not yours anymore, so whatever I think it is, you know.

Speaker: 00:23:45

Um, and some people's interpretation of it was really, uh, there were some very

Speaker: 00:23:50

unique interpretations of, of the film.

Speaker: 00:23:53

Um, but it didn't do terribly well on the festival circuit.

Speaker: 00:23:56

We got into a lot of erotic film festival, like the Porn Film Festival

Speaker: 00:23:59

in Berlin or something, which is very big- Hmm … uh, apparently.

Speaker: 00:24:02

And, like, we were in the CineKink, and, uh, that's a touring, a traveling,

Speaker: 00:24:06

uh, erotic, um… And, like, we played right after, like, this…

Speaker: 00:24:09

I've never experienced this before in my life, but, like, you

Speaker: 00:24:11

know, our block, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:24:12

B- right before our movie, there was, like, we walk into the theater,

Speaker: 00:24:16

and it's just a big, you know, full screen just, just fisting.

Speaker: 00:24:20

Right.

Speaker: 00:24:20

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:24:21

Which- Yeah, I don't think, I- I'm not surprised it didn't do well 'cause

Speaker: 00:24:24

it's not a, it's not a porn film.

Speaker: 00:24:26

It's not a ro- I mean, there is eroticism, but it's- It's not sexy … it's complex.

Speaker: 00:24:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:24:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:24:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:24:33

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:24:33

Did, did you get accused of making light of 9/11?

Speaker: 00:24:36

Yeah, and I could always, like… I mean, my argument there was,

Speaker: 00:24:39

like, well, I mean, is it my… I'm just, I'm just pointing a finger.

Speaker: 00:24:42

A lot of it was also about the mass media's, like, you know, um,

Speaker: 00:24:45

you know, oversaturation of the…

Speaker: 00:24:47

So a lot of my argument was, like, well, no, it's actually, what I was pointing

Speaker: 00:24:50

a finger at is more the mass media.

Speaker: 00:24:52

Is it me that, or is it the mass media that was playing it over and

Speaker: 00:24:54

over and over and over and over?

Speaker: 00:24:55

Right.

Speaker: 00:24:56

Um- Yeah … but it wasn't a lot of that, actually.

Speaker: 00:24:58

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:24:59

Uh, but yeah, but it almost got into Sundance, so that was, um- It was good

Speaker: 00:25:05

to find out that it almost got in.

Speaker: 00:25:07

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:25:07

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:25:09

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:25:10

Is that the only film you've made, or…?

Speaker: 00:25:12

No, I've made, I mean, uh, a handful.

Speaker: 00:25:15

Um, yeah, the one I made after that was, uh, that, that got into Sundance,

Speaker: 00:25:19

and that was like, I'd gone through a horrible breakup, um, with the

Speaker: 00:25:24

actress that was in Coverage actually.

Speaker: 00:25:26

Oh.

Speaker: 00:25:27

Um, and, uh, and the, the actor who was in Coverage went through a horrible

Speaker: 00:25:32

breakup as well, so we got together and just decided we're gonna make some very

Speaker: 00:25:35

quick and easy thing improvised, and, uh, had no real intent to make it anything.

Speaker: 00:25:39

We were gonna make a feature, but we never finished it, so

Speaker: 00:25:41

I just made it into a short.

Speaker: 00:25:43

Spent, like, 500 bucks and, you know, edited it a lot, and then, yeah,

Speaker: 00:25:47

submitted it to a bunch of festivals.

Speaker: 00:25:49

One festival took it, then nobody else, and then Sundance took it.

Speaker: 00:25:52

And, um- And what's it about?

Speaker: 00:25:54

It's basically just a, a guy in his, like, mid to late 30s.

Speaker: 00:25:58

It's a very, um… it's, like, more of a mood piece than a… But it's a guy

Speaker: 00:26:01

in his mid-30s just kind of struggling to come to terms with the end of his

Speaker: 00:26:05

relationship that he thought was going to go on, and trying to figure out what

Speaker: 00:26:09

his life looks like post-relationship, and understands the nature of the, of the

Speaker: 00:26:13

breakup and why and so forth and so on.

Speaker: 00:26:16

And then he takes flight classes and flies a plane into a building?

Speaker: 00:26:19

There you go.

Speaker: 00:26:19

Yeah, that, that's Coverage Part Two.

Speaker: 00:26:21

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:26:21

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:26:21

Right, right.

Speaker: 00:26:22

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:26:22

The sequel.

Speaker: 00:26:23

Uh, yeah, that could be a prequel, actually, maybe.

Speaker: 00:26:25

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:26:25

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:26:25

Right.

Speaker: 00:26:26

'Cause, like, we had, we had a jokey idea to do a sequel.

Speaker: 00:26:30

Um, yeah, we had all sorts of…

Speaker: 00:26:31

That was a funny film to make, 'cause, like, the jokes that we would make,

Speaker: 00:26:34

like disasterbating was the term we came up with for the- Disasterbating.

Speaker: 00:26:39

Disasterbating, yeah.

Speaker: 00:26:40

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:26:43

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:26:43

I mean, I wonder if there is an erotic component to- To what's going on.

Speaker: 00:26:51

I, I mean, I know you worked in politics for a while, so I wanted to get some of

Speaker: 00:26:56

your thoughts on the political scene.

Speaker: 00:27:00

But, you know, as we're speaking, it's what, Tuesday?

Speaker: 00:27:03

Mm, yeah, twenty-first, I think.

Speaker: 00:27:05

Um, after the No Kings marches on Sunday- Uh-huh … which Trump responded

Speaker: 00:27:12

to by releasing an AI film of himself bombing American cities and shit.

Speaker: 00:27:18

Shit.

Speaker: 00:27:19

Yeah, amazing times we live in.

Speaker: 00:27:20

I mean, who… Honestly, at a certain point I feel like you just have to like

Speaker: 00:27:26

I mean, it's, it's a sad laughter, but it's a laughter still.

Speaker: 00:27:29

Like it's like, I mean, how far off the rails can this country go?

Speaker: 00:27:34

Um, yeah.

Speaker: 00:27:37

Yeah, I mean, I could, yeah.

Speaker: 00:27:39

Um, yeah, it's scary.

Speaker: 00:27:42

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:27:42

I don't know what's gonna happen.

Speaker: 00:27:43

I feel like there's so many things happening, you know, they say fl-

Speaker: 00:27:45

they're flooding the zone, you know?

Speaker: 00:27:47

So- With shit Right.

Speaker: 00:27:48

Exactly.

Speaker: 00:27:49

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:27:49

Exactly.

Speaker: 00:27:50

Um, and, and it really works.

Speaker: 00:27:52

It works very effectively because the things that happened even three

Speaker: 00:27:54

months ago, it's like I don't even remember a lot of those 'cause

Speaker: 00:27:56

it's one thing after the other.

Speaker: 00:27:58

Um, underneath it all though I think, I was talking to a friend of mine from

Speaker: 00:28:02

the Lincoln Project, um, my podcast a couple, couple weeks ago, and she was

Speaker: 00:28:07

basically saying that, um, you know, Trump is more like a cudgel, right?

Speaker: 00:28:12

It's really easy for, for the Democrats to use Trump.

Speaker: 00:28:15

Like the organization we worked, like Lincoln Project that we worked

Speaker: 00:28:17

for who I'm a little bit leery of saying but, 'cause I signed an NDA,

Speaker: 00:28:20

but if I don't say anything bad about them, I think we're in good shape.

Speaker: 00:28:23

The argument was always democracy versus Trump, right?

Speaker: 00:28:28

Mm. But like what even is democracy in America anymore?

Speaker: 00:28:31

Like do we have a democracy?

Speaker: 00:28:32

Like when's the last time we had a real democracy in America?

Speaker: 00:28:35

Um, and it's like

Speaker: 00:28:39

Trump is a very convenient figure to make the, the overall enemy,

Speaker: 00:28:45

but really it's a systemic problem.

Speaker: 00:28:47

It's a systemic collapse problem, and I think the Democrats are almost

Speaker: 00:28:50

just as comfortable using Trump as a cudgel as, as the Republicans

Speaker: 00:28:54

are to use him as their tool to get everything they've ever wanted.

Speaker: 00:28:58

Um- But it's not everything they, they've ever wanted.

Speaker: 00:29:02

The, the wants are new, right?

Speaker: 00:29:04

What Republicans used to want was conservative.

Speaker: 00:29:07

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:29:08

And Trump's anything but conservative.

Speaker: 00:29:10

I think some of them, sure.

Speaker: 00:29:11

But I think there's a certain handful of them that have had, like, a long list

Speaker: 00:29:15

of things, like, what is Project 2025 or whatever it is, um, have had a long list

Speaker: 00:29:20

of things that they've wanted to get done, and they just needed, like, a, like, a

Speaker: 00:29:22

clever buffoon to put in there as the figurehead, and then they can behind the

Speaker: 00:29:26

scenes just kind of do whatever they want.

Speaker: 00:29:28

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:29:28

Um- Similar to the Reagan administration.

Speaker: 00:29:30

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:29:31

Another- Yeah … sort of TV- Right … screen presence to attract attention

Speaker: 00:29:36

while we do our things behind the scenes.

Speaker: 00:29:38

Right.

Speaker: 00:29:38

That's actually interesting.

Speaker: 00:29:39

Um, I think this is, like, times 10.

Speaker: 00:29:41

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:29:42

I mean, it's crazy that they had the same… Isn't it both Make,

Speaker: 00:29:44

Make America Great Again was both of their slogans, wasn't it?

Speaker: 00:29:46

It was Morning in America.

Speaker: 00:29:48

Morning in America.

Speaker: 00:29:49

Same, same thing.

Speaker: 00:29:50

Same kind of a- I don't remember any baseball hats, but- Right.

Speaker: 00:29:52

No … it was a lot of the same kind of racist rhetoric.

Speaker: 00:29:56

I went to the Trump store in, uh, Branson, Missouri.

Speaker: 00:29:59

I was on my road trip across the country, and I, I went to the,

Speaker: 00:30:03

you know, I went to Branson.

Speaker: 00:30:03

Because you ever been to Branson, Missouri?

Speaker: 00:30:05

Never been.

Speaker: 00:30:05

It's something to see.

Speaker: 00:30:06

It's something to see.

Speaker: 00:30:07

Um, yeah, it's like a combination of, like… It's like a combination

Speaker: 00:30:11

of Las Vegas, Niagara Falls.

Speaker: 00:30:13

Um, I mean, it's in the, it's in the, um, the Ozarks, so it's

Speaker: 00:30:17

like, you know, it's pretty.

Speaker: 00:30:18

But, you know, I think there's, like, 30 mini golf courses in the area.

Speaker: 00:30:21

There's, like, a whole replica of the Titanic.

Speaker: 00:30:23

It's a strange town.

Speaker: 00:30:24

And every… Remember Yakov Smirnoff?

Speaker: 00:30:26

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:30:26

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:30:27

I thought he was dead.

Speaker: 00:30:28

I didn't even know he was alive.

Speaker: 00:30:28

He's got a comedy club there called S- uh, Yakov's.

Speaker: 00:30:31

I was gonna go see him, but, uh, he wasn't doing that night.

Speaker: 00:30:34

Uh- Russia's not funny anymore.

Speaker: 00:30:36

And what's he doing now?

Speaker: 00:30:37

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:30:38

That's the question.

Speaker: 00:30:38

Like, you know, uh- Yeah … what is he doing, uh… Yeah.

Speaker: 00:30:40

Anyway.

Speaker: 00:30:40

Yakov Smirnoff.

Speaker: 00:30:42

Wow.

Speaker: 00:30:42

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:30:42

And they have more, more theater seats than, uh, New

Speaker: 00:30:45

York City in Branson, Missouri.

Speaker: 00:30:47

And, and what… It's, like, Grand Ole Opry kinda shit?

Speaker: 00:30:49

It's all… It's, like, wash… It's a lot of washed-up, um,

Speaker: 00:30:52

I think, uh, old stars that…

Speaker: 00:30:54

But yeah, I think it's, like, after you go on the Grand Ole

Speaker: 00:30:56

Opry, maybe you go to Branson and just- Right … do, do a run there.

Speaker: 00:30:59

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:31:00

Like, like you're not, you're not up to Vegas.

Speaker: 00:31:02

Yeah, something like that.

Speaker: 00:31:03

And you're kinda like- Jef Foxworthy kind of- Well, your appeal is there.

Speaker: 00:31:07

Like, it's, uh, it's a different appeal than Vegas.

Speaker: 00:31:09

Like, it's a different… You know, it's the South, so, um- Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:31:11

Yeah … you know, it's southern Missouri.

Speaker: 00:31:12

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:31:12

Anyway, there's a Trump store there.

Speaker: 00:31:14

There's actually two.

Speaker: 00:31:15

So I was like, "All right, I gotta…" You know, you only know how many

Speaker: 00:31:17

times you get to go to a Trump store.

Speaker: 00:31:19

And, uh, yeah, it was something else.

Speaker: 00:31:21

I mean, it was crowded.

Speaker: 00:31:22

There's an animatronic Trump outside, like, you know, waving at you, all

Speaker: 00:31:25

sorts of… And all the hats, you know, Golf of America, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker: 00:31:29

And then the one hat that I noticed- … 'cause they're all Trump slogans, you

Speaker: 00:31:32

know, Make Amer- Spelled with an O, Golf of America … Golf of America.

Speaker: 00:31:34

Baron for president.

Speaker: 00:31:35

Um- Great

Speaker: 00:31:36

and then one of them just, just one of them just said, "Titties." But it was in,

Speaker: 00:31:41

like, you know, it had an American red, white, and blue, like- This is a shirt?

Speaker: 00:31:45

No, it was just a hat.

Speaker: 00:31:45

Oh, a hat?

Speaker: 00:31:46

It just said titties.

Speaker: 00:31:47

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:31:47

Titties.

Speaker: 00:31:47

Titties.

Speaker: 00:31:48

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:31:48

Well, how can you argue with that?

Speaker: 00:31:49

No.

Speaker: 00:31:50

No.

Speaker: 00:31:50

It was the only one that was unrelated to politics or Trump, which was interesting.

Speaker: 00:31:54

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:31:54

Almost bought it, but thought- … no, no.

Speaker: 00:31:57

$40 for a titties hat.

Speaker: 00:31:58

And where are you gonna wear it?

Speaker: 00:31:59

When am I gonna wear that?

Speaker: 00:32:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:32:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:32:00

Yeah, for Halloween maybe, but even then, yeah.

Speaker: 00:32:03

When?

Speaker: 00:32:04

What are you going as?

Speaker: 00:32:05

Right.

Speaker: 00:32:05

I mean- A Hooters manager?

Speaker: 00:32:07

Like… I don't even know if a Hooters manager would wear…

Speaker: 00:32:10

I mean, that's a little…

Speaker: 00:32:11

Uh, some of them would, I would think.

Speaker: 00:32:13

Uh, and then there's a Jesus store right down the street from the Trump

Speaker: 00:32:16

store- Yeah … which I went to as well.

Speaker: 00:32:17

A Jesus store.

Speaker: 00:32:18

It's like Jesus merch, right?

Speaker: 00:32:19

It's all Jesus merch.

Speaker: 00:32:21

And it's, like, very similar to the Trump store.

Speaker: 00:32:23

Um- Oh, man … very surprisingly similar to the Trump store actually.

Speaker: 00:32:26

It's just a different character.

Speaker: 00:32:28

So have you been paying attention to politics- Mm … your whole life

Speaker: 00:32:33

or, I mean, you mentioned that you worked for the Lincoln Project.

Speaker: 00:32:36

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:32:36

We don't… W- we can talk about that or not, depending on your comfort level.

Speaker: 00:32:40

But was- … was your work with them because of an interest in politics,

Speaker: 00:32:45

or it was just a job and you're a video editor and there you go?

Speaker: 00:32:49

Um, yeah, it really kind of randomly happened.

Speaker: 00:32:51

I've certainly… Like, I've paid attention to politics for a good

Speaker: 00:32:54

portion of my life on and off.

Speaker: 00:32:56

I mean, a… You know, during Obama I didn't really 'cause you

Speaker: 00:32:58

didn't really, I guess, have to as much because it was just, you

Speaker: 00:33:01

know- Kind of normal … um- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:33:03

Uh, but yeah, no, I got, I got…

Speaker: 00:33:05

During COVID, it was 2020, I got laid off.

Speaker: 00:33:07

I was working in, uh, uh, uh, marketing at Hollister, like the, the clothing.

Speaker: 00:33:12

We're selling clothing, jeans to teenagers.

Speaker: 00:33:14

Um- Right, Hollister, which is a tiny town in Cal- in California.

Speaker: 00:33:18

Yeah, and they've had… Though they, they, it's not based on that.

Speaker: 00:33:21

That's not at all what the clothing brand is based on.

Speaker: 00:33:23

I think there were some sort of a lawsuit settlement or something- Um, yeah

Speaker: 00:33:25

… that the thing- I remember reading something like that … yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:33:26

Something, something.

Speaker: 00:33:27

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:33:27

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:33:27

Well, Abercrombie & Fitch has had their own share of

Speaker: 00:33:29

problems, and that's the parent.

Speaker: 00:33:30

Okay.

Speaker: 00:33:30

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:33:31

Right.

Speaker: 00:33:31

Um, but, uh, but yeah, I got laid off from there during that

Speaker: 00:33:34

summer, and a buddy of mine…

Speaker: 00:33:36

And this was when the Lincoln Project was just starting to get really big.

Speaker: 00:33:39

And a buddy of mine from New York, like, called me and he's like, "Oh,

Speaker: 00:33:42

I know a guy at the Lincoln Project. They're looking for somebody." And

Speaker: 00:33:44

weirdly enough, I'd already been making, like- weird Trump mashups.

Speaker: 00:33:49

You know, I made just weird videos for The Lincoln Project, like funny, weird,

Speaker: 00:33:53

you know, satirical blah, blah, blah.

Speaker: 00:33:55

Mm. And I'd already made some weird things, um, when… I, I

Speaker: 00:33:59

don't really know why, but it felt, you know, uh, it felt fun.

Speaker: 00:34:04

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:34:04

Um, anyway, so I already had work to show them, and so yeah, I was only

Speaker: 00:34:08

supposed to work there for three months, and, um, and it was crazy.

Speaker: 00:34:12

I've never had so much, um, like, you know, as a video person, you

Speaker: 00:34:16

don't, you know, it's about how many people see your thing, right?

Speaker: 00:34:19

To a great degree.

Speaker: 00:34:20

And like the first thing I made was like, goes up online, it's like a million

Speaker: 00:34:24

people have watched it in five hours.

Speaker: 00:34:25

Mm. And it was just like, "Whoa, dude." Um, so that was fun.

Speaker: 00:34:29

And, uh Yeah, but no, never intended to get in, uh, to politics

Speaker: 00:34:35

and don't plan to do that again.

Speaker: 00:34:37

Um, four and a half years was enough.

Speaker: 00:34:40

Why is that?

Speaker: 00:34:42

It's a complicated, uh, question.

Speaker: 00:34:44

But, um, A, I would say primarily because my job required me to, like, watch… Um,

Speaker: 00:34:51

I've, I've seen more Trump speeches than probably most people- Mm. -on the planet.

Speaker: 00:34:54

Right.

Speaker: 00:34:54

Um, like I know his bits.

Speaker: 00:34:56

I would watch him hone a routine, you know, this, you

Speaker: 00:34:59

know, the toilets don't flush.

Speaker: 00:35:00

He would, he would hone that and get laughs from that.

Speaker: 00:35:02

He's a stand-up comic at heart when he does these rallies.

Speaker: 00:35:04

Um, and in watching CPAC, you know, CPAC- Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:35:09

-I'd have to watch the whole, the whole weekend would be

Speaker: 00:35:11

blocked off to just watch it.

Speaker: 00:35:12

Right.

Speaker: 00:35:12

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:35:12

That'll rot your brain.

Speaker: 00:35:13

Right, right, right.

Speaker: 00:35:14

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:35:14

And so I know a lot, like, you know, I know, we're well familiar

Speaker: 00:35:17

with who Charlie Kirk was.

Speaker: 00:35:18

Like I know, knew all these people in the… And it just

Speaker: 00:35:21

became, it became, yeah, it became hard to live in that darkness.

Speaker: 00:35:28

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:35:28

You know?

Speaker: 00:35:28

Um, beyond that, like just not even just watching the right-wing content,

Speaker: 00:35:33

it was more like just experiencing the, um, I feel like rot and

Speaker: 00:35:38

grift that is politics in general, um, from the inside to a degree.

Speaker: 00:35:44

Right.

Speaker: 00:35:44

Was, um, yeah.

Speaker: 00:35:47

So you did, in your experience, I, I know we, we have an NDA to- I'm walking on

Speaker: 00:35:52

a fine line here … dance around here.

Speaker: 00:35:53

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:35:53

Um, but we're not, I'm not talking about the Lincoln Project specifically-

Speaker: 00:35:57

Right … just your general insider's view- Sure, sure … of politics, uh,

Speaker: 00:36:03

did not leave you inspired and hopeful.

Speaker: 00:36:05

No.

Speaker: 00:36:06

I mean, I… No.

Speaker: 00:36:09

Um, I feel like, uh, a lot of politics is a, um, is a grift.

Speaker: 00:36:17

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:36:17

There's, there's a lot of people making a lot of money, um, off of

Speaker: 00:36:21

politics and, um, and I think that's the heart of the problem with our

Speaker: 00:36:26

political system in general is money.

Speaker: 00:36:28

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:36:28

Um, there's a, I think it was Mo- Missouri or Montana, I heard they're

Speaker: 00:36:34

actually the state, um- Yeah, I heard that

Speaker: 00:36:36

is trying, you've heard this, that they're trying to basically say, take,

Speaker: 00:36:39

take, saying the corporations can't donate to… And that could hold up

Speaker: 00:36:42

because the Supreme Court has a lot of precedent on states' rights, like, um-

Speaker: 00:36:45

Right, and that, what, what was the, the, um, Supreme Court case that allowed

Speaker: 00:36:51

co- that said money is free speech?

Speaker: 00:36:54

And, um, Citizens United.

Speaker: 00:36:57

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:36:57

Yeah, that that's based on states- Uh, regulations of corporations.

Speaker: 00:37:04

And so Montana's saying, "Well, then we can regulate that

Speaker: 00:37:07

corporations are not allowed to spend money on politics." Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:37:10

And apparently that's totally within the ju- Supreme Court judgment, so it doesn't

Speaker: 00:37:14

even need to go back to the Supreme Court.

Speaker: 00:37:16

Right.

Speaker: 00:37:17

Although I'm sure they'll- That's interesting … I'm sure they'll

Speaker: 00:37:18

find a way to make it, um- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:37:21

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:37:22

'Cause, you know, my concern is, like, in order to get money out of politics, you

Speaker: 00:37:25

gotta find a candidate who's, you know, you know, an anti-corporate candidate.

Speaker: 00:37:31

But, you know, 95% of the time the candidate with the most money wins.

Speaker: 00:37:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:37:34

So how do you even get the money?

Speaker: 00:37:36

You need to find some s- insanely wealthy, um, you know, progressive,

Speaker: 00:37:41

um, to, to actually run, but I don't know any insanely wealthy progressives.

Speaker: 00:37:45

Who's willing to risk his life- Right … because if he gets close to winning-

Speaker: 00:37:50

Then the, then the… Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:37:52

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:37:52

They'll- The, the powers that be will move in They're not gonna let…

Speaker: 00:37:55

Yeah, they're not gonna let anything that would truly change the system-

Speaker: 00:38:00

Right … uh, in, into power.

Speaker: 00:38:03

You know that Frank Zappa line that, uh, politics is the entertainment division

Speaker: 00:38:09

of the military industrial complex?

Speaker: 00:38:10

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:38:11

Right, right, right, right, right.

Speaker: 00:38:12

I think about that a lot.

Speaker: 00:38:13

Right.

Speaker: 00:38:14

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:38:14

I, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:38:15

It… As cynical and jaded as I am about American politics, it does

Speaker: 00:38:22

feel like what's happening now is something qualitatively different.

Speaker: 00:38:27

For sure.

Speaker: 00:38:28

You know, Obama was blowing up wedding parties in Yemen, but he

Speaker: 00:38:32

wasn't releasing videos of himself shitting on Chicago, you know?

Speaker: 00:38:36

It's- Right, right, right.

Speaker: 00:38:37

Yeah, I mean, it seems like- There, there's a contempt to…

Speaker: 00:38:40

And, and also it seems to me that they've already decided there

Speaker: 00:38:44

aren't gonna be more elections- Yeah … so they don't give a fuck.

Speaker: 00:38:46

It seems very much like they're trying to make this a one-party country.

Speaker: 00:38:49

Um, and whether they can do that or not, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:38:52

Like, there is some buffoonery in that administration-

Speaker: 00:38:54

um, fortunately.

Speaker: 00:38:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:38:56

Um- No, well, well, that's the thing.

Speaker: 00:38:58

It's like, it's like there's a pilot flying the plane who h- who is blind,

Speaker: 00:39:03

drunk, and has no idea how to fly a plane.

Speaker: 00:39:06

But yet I think there's a few people in there that aren't blind, drunk, or

Speaker: 00:39:09

anything like that, and those are the ones that are really put- pulling the levers.

Speaker: 00:39:12

Like, what's that, Steven Miller?

Speaker: 00:39:13

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:39:14

That guy's a demon.

Speaker: 00:39:15

Um- Yeah … and he's the person who's doing most of this immigration madness.

Speaker: 00:39:18

But, um- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:39:20

But yeah, it certainly seems, it certainly seems like, uh- And you try to think

Speaker: 00:39:25

of times in history that have been similar to how bad this is, and like

Speaker: 00:39:30

I, I'm not very good with the history.

Speaker: 00:39:32

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:39:32

Um, but like wouldn't like early '20s, something like that?

Speaker: 00:39:36

I mean, there were bad periods in America.

Speaker: 00:39:39

I just, my question I guess is, when I, when I think about it, is

Speaker: 00:39:41

like how do we get out of this?

Speaker: 00:39:42

Like people, how do we re- return to normal?

Speaker: 00:39:44

What does that even mean?

Speaker: 00:39:45

How does that happen?

Speaker: 00:39:46

I don't even, I don't see the country being able to do that.

Speaker: 00:39:48

I think that it'll return to something, but whatever it is isn't

Speaker: 00:39:53

gonna be what this, what normal, what we define as normal, right?

Speaker: 00:39:56

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:39:57

So I don't know.

Speaker: 00:39:58

Um, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:40:02

Yeah, it feels like we need to hit rock bottom.

Speaker: 00:40:06

You know, when I think about times of significant change, like Teddy Roosevelt,

Speaker: 00:40:12

uh, going after the monopolies- Mm-hmm

Speaker: 00:40:15

and the big, uh, you know, railroad companies- Right, right … and

Speaker: 00:40:17

all that in the early 20th century, you know, the, the country was

Speaker: 00:40:23

at the brink of revolution.

Speaker: 00:40:25

And then you think about, uh, you know, the sort of regulations coming into

Speaker: 00:40:30

effect in the 1920s after Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle, uh, describing the

Speaker: 00:40:37

meat packing plants and the rats- Mm-hmm

Speaker: 00:40:40

and the feces and all the shit.

Speaker: 00:40:40

And then, okay, we'll do some regulation.

Speaker: 00:40:43

Right.

Speaker: 00:40:43

You know, and then FDR with the, the New Deal.

Speaker: 00:40:47

Or was it the New- The New Deal, yeah.

Speaker: 00:40:49

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:40:49

Um, oh yeah, Great Society was Lyndon Johnson.

Speaker: 00:40:53

You know, it's, it's like, I think there needs to be, the country needs to be on

Speaker: 00:40:59

the verge of revolution before they'll…

Speaker: 00:41:03

And then they'll just give you enough to quiet you down, you know.

Speaker: 00:41:05

Right.

Speaker: 00:41:06

I mean, it's also- Maybe a g- a war of some sort.

Speaker: 00:41:11

I mean, some sort of a, a, a catastrophic event to cause a reset.

Speaker: 00:41:15

Um- Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:41:16

But unfortunately, we'd have to live through that catastrophic event

Speaker: 00:41:18

in order for the reset to happen.

Speaker: 00:41:20

Uh- Yeah

Speaker: 00:41:20

or if Trump dies.

Speaker: 00:41:21

I mean, he's never gonna die though.

Speaker: 00:41:22

He's gonna live till then.

Speaker: 00:41:23

Motherfucker's gonna live till he's like 100 probably.

Speaker: 00:41:25

I think he's like Lassie.

Speaker: 00:41:26

I think they've got like- … 10 Trumps in, in- Right … the green room waiting-

Speaker: 00:41:31

Right … to take- You might be right.

Speaker: 00:41:32

You might be right … you know?

Speaker: 00:41:33

Or if, if after he dies, he has like a Weekend at Bernie's thing

Speaker: 00:41:35

where they just keep coming.

Speaker: 00:41:36

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:41:36

Like, carrying him around.

Speaker: 00:41:38

He's got so much makeup, you wouldn't notice.

Speaker: 00:41:41

Uh, but who jumps in?

Speaker: 00:41:42

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:41:42

I hope… I mean, uh, that's what people say.

Speaker: 00:41:43

It's like once he's gone, they don't really have anybody to

Speaker: 00:41:45

jump in, but I don't, I don't know that I agree with that.

Speaker: 00:41:47

I feel like… Well, but like you said, he's, he's got so much stage presence

Speaker: 00:41:53

and, and a twisted kind of charisma.

Speaker: 00:41:57

Uh, I don't, I don't see anyone else, uh, in the wings who can h- who

Speaker: 00:42:03

can command that kind of attention.

Speaker: 00:42:04

No.

Speaker: 00:42:05

JD Vance is a weasely little fuck.

Speaker: 00:42:07

He really is, yeah.

Speaker: 00:42:07

Everyone knows it.

Speaker: 00:42:08

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:42:08

He's, he doesn't inspire any- No, no … kind of fear or admiration.

Speaker: 00:42:14

Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:42:15

I don't know what the hell's happening, man.

Speaker: 00:42:17

It's, that's why I live in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker: 00:42:19

Yeah, it's a solid, it's a solid idea.

Speaker: 00:42:21

Um, I kind of wanna get out of the country, but we'll see

Speaker: 00:42:23

if I can make that happen.

Speaker: 00:42:24

Well, weren't you living in Mexico City for a while or?

Speaker: 00:42:27

I was like there for a month and a half or so- Oh … earlier this

Speaker: 00:42:30

year- Right … after I lost the job.

Speaker: 00:42:31

Um, yeah, I loved it.

Speaker: 00:42:32

I'd never been to Mexico City.

Speaker: 00:42:34

Had no idea what to expect, but boy, something going on down there.

Speaker: 00:42:38

I really liked it.

Speaker: 00:42:38

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:42:39

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:42:39

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:42:39

It's a, it's a nice place.

Speaker: 00:42:41

Beautiful place, wonderful people.

Speaker: 00:42:42

Um, the warmth of like the, like, um, Latino culture really is like somewhat…

Speaker: 00:42:48

Like as an American, it ta- at first it's like a little off-putting, and then you're

Speaker: 00:42:51

like, "Oh, they really are that friendly."

Speaker: 00:42:52

They're just… Um, I really like that.

Speaker: 00:42:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:42:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:42:56

The vibes are better.

Speaker: 00:42:58

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:42:58

I've, I've spent a lot of time in Mexico.

Speaker: 00:43:01

I like it a lot.

Speaker: 00:43:03

It's hard… It's always hard for me to wrap my head around the evil Mexican

Speaker: 00:43:07

assassins and, you know, the, the cartels and all that because my experience

Speaker: 00:43:13

of Mexican people is, like- Yeah

Speaker: 00:43:15

so kind and- Yeah … kinda simple- Mm-hmm … in a good way, you know.

Speaker: 00:43:21

But I guess it's, that's similar to my experience of Africans as well, and

Speaker: 00:43:26

they can… Man, if things go wrong in Africa- Right … shit gets really crazy.

Speaker: 00:43:32

Right.

Speaker: 00:43:32

Or even in America.

Speaker: 00:43:33

I mean, I find most people I meet when I'm, you know, driving across the country,

Speaker: 00:43:36

everybody's super friendly, you know?

Speaker: 00:43:37

Mm. Um, but there's certainly a darkness.

Speaker: 00:43:41

Yeah, I read something recently, I think it was on Substack.

Speaker: 00:43:44

Somebody posted, "If you wanna hate America, watch the news. If you wanna love

Speaker: 00:43:50

it, drive across the country." It's true.

Speaker: 00:43:53

I drove across the country and I, and I met a lot of wonderful people actually.

Speaker: 00:43:58

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:43:58

I'd never done that before.

Speaker: 00:43:59

It's a, it's a large country we have here.

Speaker: 00:44:02

Really good.

Speaker: 00:44:03

You've never driven across the country?

Speaker: 00:44:04

No.

Speaker: 00:44:04

I mean, when I was young, we, we drove with a family trip from like,

Speaker: 00:44:07

you know, Ohio to Aspen, you know?

Speaker: 00:44:09

But never like just, you know, all the way over to California and then down through.

Speaker: 00:44:13

Um, yeah.

Speaker: 00:44:15

And uh, you know, when I was unemployed, I'm still relatively unemployed, and

Speaker: 00:44:19

I was like, "When else am I gonna have a chance to do this," you know?

Speaker: 00:44:21

Mm. Um, and yeah, it was great.

Speaker: 00:44:23

50 days.

Speaker: 00:44:24

49 days.

Speaker: 00:44:25

Oh, that's a… Okay, that wasn't an interstate highway drive.

Speaker: 00:44:29

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:44:29

That was a meandering drive.

Speaker: 00:44:30

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:44:31

And I wasn't moving the whole time.

Speaker: 00:44:32

I was staying with some friends in like, um, uh, San Jose for a while.

Speaker: 00:44:35

I stayed with my sister up in San, uh, San Francisco.

Speaker: 00:44:38

Mm. And um…

Speaker: 00:44:39

But yeah.

Speaker: 00:44:39

And then went to, um, Bogota for a week.

Speaker: 00:44:43

Um- But, uh, you been to Bogotá?

Speaker: 00:44:47

Never.

Speaker: 00:44:48

Traffic, traffic problems.

Speaker: 00:44:49

Real bad traffic.

Speaker: 00:44:50

I think it's, like, the worst traffic in, like, any major city in the, in the world.

Speaker: 00:44:54

Mm. It's really pretty bad.

Speaker: 00:44:56

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:44:56

No, I always wanted to go to Colombia, but when I was doing a lot of traveling,

Speaker: 00:45:00

uh, in the '80s, Colombia was- Yeah

Speaker: 00:45:04

you know, off limits.

Speaker: 00:45:07

People were getting kidnapped at the airport.

Speaker: 00:45:09

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:45:09

You know, you wouldn't even get to your hotel.

Speaker: 00:45:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:45:12

Yeah, like Medellín, they say it's a beautiful city now, but that

Speaker: 00:45:15

was, like, the, like, the car- the headquarters there back in the day.

Speaker: 00:45:17

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:45:18

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:45:19

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:45:19

Yeah, no, beautiful city.

Speaker: 00:45:21

I, I almost went four or five years ago.

Speaker: 00:45:25

Uh, I was planning a trip there, and I had a friend whose wife … I guess

Speaker: 00:45:31

his wife's Venezuelan, but first, he knows people in, in Colombia.

Speaker: 00:45:36

Anyway, he was like, "Hey, I have a friend who has an apartment

Speaker: 00:45:38

in Medellín, and let me ask him, you know, if you can stay there.

Speaker: 00:45:42

I'd

Speaker: 00:45:42

He's not … I know he's in London now," whatever.

Speaker: 00:45:45

And then he got back to me, he's like, "Yeah, there's … You can

Speaker: 00:45:48

stay in his apartment," he said.

Speaker: 00:45:49

"It's, it's free." Yeah.

Speaker: 00:45:51

You know, "Nobody's there, and da, da, da. And the doorman will

Speaker: 00:45:54

let you in and all that." And so I got that far into the trip.

Speaker: 00:45:58

Anyway, we ended up not going.

Speaker: 00:46:00

I forget, some family shit came up or something.

Speaker: 00:46:02

But, um, later I learned that his friend was the ex-mayor of Medellín.

Speaker: 00:46:09

So, like, what, what kind of apartment did I turn down?

Speaker: 00:46:12

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:46:13

You must have turned down the most- Nice apartment.

Speaker: 00:46:15

Right, right.

Speaker: 00:46:16

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:46:16

Well.

Speaker: 00:46:17

Although also, do you wanna be staying in the ex-mayor's apartment?

Speaker: 00:46:20

Like- Yeah … that's a- That's a complicated … What year was this?

Speaker: 00:46:23

Five, six years ago.

Speaker: 00:46:24

Oh, all right.

Speaker: 00:46:25

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:46:25

So it was, you know, not nearly as dangerous.

Speaker: 00:46:27

I think maybe it was, like, early COVID.

Speaker: 00:46:29

Maybe that's what came up.

Speaker: 00:46:30

Oh, right.

Speaker: 00:46:30

Like, it got- Right … you know … Yeah, 'cause we were

Speaker: 00:46:33

pretty far into planning it.

Speaker: 00:46:34

We were gonna go to Cuba first and then Colombia.

Speaker: 00:46:37

Oh, I'd love to go to Cuba.

Speaker: 00:46:38

Yeah, me too.

Speaker: 00:46:39

I wanna go to North Korea.

Speaker: 00:46:41

I do not.

Speaker: 00:46:42

Yeah, I don't know what it is.

Speaker: 00:46:43

I mean, I lived in Korea for, like South Korea, for a couple

Speaker: 00:46:46

years when I was younger.

Speaker: 00:46:47

And, uh, yeah, I'm just somehow f- I'm weirdly fascinated.

Speaker: 00:46:51

Like, I've read a lot of books.

Speaker: 00:46:51

I'm just weirdly fascinated with, you know, it's the most

Speaker: 00:46:54

isolated country in the world.

Speaker: 00:46:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:46:56

And it, uh, something about it just is, uh, really interesting to me.

Speaker: 00:46:59

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:46:59

Um- Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:47:02

I mean, I watched all these videos.

Speaker: 00:47:03

Like, I learned… Yeah.

Speaker: 00:47:04

It's, it's, it's a history of that country.

Speaker: 00:47:07

Boy, that's a, that's an interesting one.

Speaker: 00:47:10

Yeah, you could, uh, talk with Dennis Rodman about it.

Speaker: 00:47:13

Right, right.

Speaker: 00:47:14

I remember that was a while back when- It is

Speaker: 00:47:15

I became friends with, uh, Kim Jong's- Which kind of all was- … Kim Jong.

Speaker: 00:47:18

I mean, what a world.

Speaker: 00:47:20

I feel like the world's gone into a, a… Like, like someday people are gonna look

Speaker: 00:47:26

back and say, "Oh, those poor people in the early 20th century, they had no idea

Speaker: 00:47:30

what was happening." But now we understand that there are, like, realms of space

Speaker: 00:47:36

that the, the Solar System is moving through space, and there are realms in

Speaker: 00:47:41

which the laws of probability change.

Speaker: 00:47:44

Right.

Speaker: 00:47:44

I feel like we moved into a realm where things that used to be very

Speaker: 00:47:49

unlikely have become much more likely.

Speaker: 00:47:52

Right, right.

Speaker: 00:47:53

I mean, there must be a way to test that with, you know, random

Speaker: 00:47:57

number generators or some shit.

Speaker: 00:48:00

But it, it just feels like, like there were… Suddenly there were,

Speaker: 00:48:04

like, crazy… I forget which Super Bowl it was, but, like, one team

Speaker: 00:48:08

was 28 points down in the fourth quarter and they came back and won.

Speaker: 00:48:12

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:48:12

It was like, what?

Speaker: 00:48:13

Right.

Speaker: 00:48:13

That doesn't happen.

Speaker: 00:48:15

You know?

Speaker: 00:48:15

And then there was… I remember, I mean, this is, this is more

Speaker: 00:48:19

science-based, but I remember there was a hurricane coming up the west

Speaker: 00:48:22

coast of Mexico, and it was Category 5.

Speaker: 00:48:26

And I d- I read somewhere and they said, "Well, the only reason it's

Speaker: 00:48:29

Category 5 is it doesn't go up to 6."

Speaker: 00:48:33

So it's Category 5 plus, you know?

Speaker: 00:48:38

It's like the, the things that used to be a once in a thousand

Speaker: 00:48:42

year storm, they're happening every- Well, yeah … 10 years now.

Speaker: 00:48:46

Climate change, yeah.

Speaker: 00:48:46

And of course that's science, but I feel like it's happening in other

Speaker: 00:48:49

things too, just- The simulation got reprogrammed or something,

Speaker: 00:48:52

or we got- Yeah, that kinda thing

Speaker: 00:48:53

yeah, we got stuck in a different simulation of some sort.

Speaker: 00:48:55

I don't think it's a simulation, but I, I, I wouldn't be surprised if

Speaker: 00:48:59

there's some, some energetic component.

Speaker: 00:49:05

Well, I know there are energetic components to reality that

Speaker: 00:49:08

we can't perceive or measure.

Speaker: 00:49:11

Um, so something yet to be discovered that's gonna explain

Speaker: 00:49:14

why shit got so weird so quickly.

Speaker: 00:49:17

Yeah, that'd be interesting if we actually had a, uh, a scientific paper

Speaker: 00:49:21

that came out with, like, "This is why things got weird," and you know.

Speaker: 00:49:24

And I think COVID, that was part of it.

Speaker: 00:49:28

Was that cause or effect though?

Speaker: 00:49:31

Uh, interesting.

Speaker: 00:49:33

Well, and, and have there been other periods like that?

Speaker: 00:49:35

Like- It seems like every t- 50 years or so there's like an, uh, somehow sort of

Speaker: 00:49:38

a global upheaval that happens, like in the '60s and like, uh, the '20s, you know?

Speaker: 00:49:43

It seems like- Yeah … there's, seems like there's a… But this one

Speaker: 00:49:46

seems like it's more significant.

Speaker: 00:49:48

But of course, everybody who's alive always thinks that their, you know,

Speaker: 00:49:52

period of time is more- Right … bizarre and twisted than any other period.

Speaker: 00:49:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:49:55

And maybe that's true.

Speaker: 00:49:56

Um- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:49:58

Each, it's like a spiraling thing.

Speaker: 00:50:00

Right.

Speaker: 00:50:00

Each, it's cyclical, but also, uh, incremental.

Speaker: 00:50:03

And, and I think the internet is a big part of why this one's so much- Yeah

Speaker: 00:50:07

… or at least feels so much more, because when like, you know, you have media

Speaker: 00:50:11

connecting the entire world and all the information at the, at your fingertips,

Speaker: 00:50:15

and you can, you can find people who have the same crazy beliefs as you and connect

Speaker: 00:50:19

on the internet, I think it really, uh…

Speaker: 00:50:21

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:50:22

Yeah, there's an accelerating effect there.

Speaker: 00:50:24

Yeah, like that flat Earth thing.

Speaker: 00:50:25

Big fan of that.

Speaker: 00:50:26

Uh, that's one of my favorite, uh, things to come out of the

Speaker: 00:50:29

last 10 years of, of medias.

Speaker: 00:50:30

Flat Earth.

Speaker: 00:50:31

The flat Earthers, yeah.

Speaker: 00:50:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:50:32

Is, is that recent, or has that always been around?

Speaker: 00:50:34

No, that's been around for like…

Speaker: 00:50:34

I mean, that started to blow up about five, uh… COVID,

Speaker: 00:50:39

I think, did a little bit.

Speaker: 00:50:40

But I think even before that, I think it was five or 10 years ago that started to

Speaker: 00:50:43

become a, more of a talked about thing.

Speaker: 00:50:46

You know what I mean?

Speaker: 00:50:47

Um, and yeah, they believe, you know, we live on a flat disc,

Speaker: 00:50:50

and like there's an ice wall.

Speaker: 00:50:52

You know, that there's an ice wall around the edge of the Earth, so

Speaker: 00:50:54

that's why- Yeah … you can't get to, so you don't fall off, I guess.

Speaker: 00:50:57

And it's biblical.

Speaker: 00:50:58

Some of the people are biblical.

Speaker: 00:50:59

It's like a firmament.

Speaker: 00:51:01

There's a great documentary about these people, and at the very end

Speaker: 00:51:03

they do an experiment where they shoot a laser like across a giant lake to

Speaker: 00:51:06

see, and the experiment proves that the Earth isn't flat, and they're

Speaker: 00:51:10

like, and then the movie ends.

Speaker: 00:51:11

And it's like, "Oops, all right." Yeah.

Speaker: 00:51:15

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:51:16

Well, it's not dissimilar to the people who, you know, predict, uh, the

Speaker: 00:51:21

end times and then the date passes.

Speaker: 00:51:24

Yeah, it was just supposed to happen.

Speaker: 00:51:25

Yeah, the… What was it, the end times?

Speaker: 00:51:26

What was it?

Speaker: 00:51:26

The, uh, w- the one where pe- people, the rapture was supposed to

Speaker: 00:51:29

happen like two or three weeks ago.

Speaker: 00:51:30

Oh, really?

Speaker: 00:51:31

See that like Saturday, two or three Saturdays ago.

Speaker: 00:51:33

Yeah, there's a whole, the internet- Oh … was going crazy.

Speaker: 00:51:34

Oh, I didn't hear about that.

Speaker: 00:51:35

Yeah, you gotta get on the- I missed it.

Speaker: 00:51:37

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:51:37

Um, but yeah, it didn't, uh, didn't happen.

Speaker: 00:51:39

But I did see somebody on the, uh, whatever, Instagram or something,

Speaker: 00:51:43

had, had made inflatable balloons of people and put them above their house

Speaker: 00:51:46

to make it look like there were people getting pulled up into the sky to, to

Speaker: 00:51:49

fuck with the people who thought the rapture- You ever watch Six Feet Under?

Speaker: 00:51:52

Yeah, I love that show.

Speaker: 00:51:53

There was… Remember how each episode begins with a death?

Speaker: 00:51:56

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:51:57

Uh, there was one where- Uh, okay, it opens, this woman's listening.

Speaker: 00:52:03

She's driving somewhere, and she's got her car radio on,

Speaker: 00:52:06

and it's some Christian thing.

Speaker: 00:52:07

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:52:08

And it's talking about, you know, the Rapture, and are you gonna

Speaker: 00:52:10

be saved, and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker: 00:52:12

And then it cuts, and it's guys in a warehouse, and they've got all

Speaker: 00:52:19

these inflated, uh, sex dolls that they're loading into a truck to

Speaker: 00:52:25

take to a convention or something.

Speaker: 00:52:28

Oh, right, and the truck, back of the truck opens up.

Speaker: 00:52:30

And the dolls go up.

Speaker: 00:52:31

And she sees them.

Speaker: 00:52:31

And the woman sees them- Loses her mind … and thinks it's the Rapture,

Speaker: 00:52:34

and she crashes her car and dies.

Speaker: 00:52:34

Crashes her car.

Speaker: 00:52:36

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:37

That was a great show.

Speaker: 00:52:38

That was a great show.

Speaker: 00:52:39

The last episode, I thought that was… Some people said they didn't like it, but

Speaker: 00:52:42

I thought the last, the way they ended it was about as perfect as you could end a

Speaker: 00:52:44

show about what that was about, you know?

Speaker: 00:52:47

Showing everybody getting older and- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:49

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:50

Spoiler alert.

Speaker: 00:52:51

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:52

Yeah, I th- I think the, probably the best three or four minutes of television

Speaker: 00:52:59

that I've ever seen was in that show.

Speaker: 00:53:02

It was, uh

Speaker: 00:53:05

I'll, I'll, I'll include, if I remember, I'll include the, the video at the,

Speaker: 00:53:09

in the show notes for this episode.

Speaker: 00:53:12

It's when, um, Nate dies.

Speaker: 00:53:14

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:53:15

And, uh, his brother, I forget his brother's name.

Speaker: 00:53:18

I forget.

Speaker: 00:53:18

The gay guy who later played Dexter.

Speaker: 00:53:20

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:53:21

He's in the hospital room with him, and there's a TV on, and

Speaker: 00:53:28

y- what happens is Nate's lying there and, and he says he's got, you know,

Speaker: 00:53:32

he's just had brain surgery, I think.

Speaker: 00:53:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:53:34

He had a stroke or something and, and, you know, his head's all

Speaker: 00:53:38

bandaged and he's lying there, and he's watching this nature show, and

Speaker: 00:53:42

the birds are diving into the water.

Speaker: 00:53:45

And he says, "I'm so tired." And his brother says, "Well, just sleep.

Speaker: 00:53:49

Every- I'll stay here.

Speaker: 00:53:50

I'll be here when you wake up.

Speaker: 00:53:51

Everything's cool." And, and then you see Nate's eyes close, and you go into

Speaker: 00:53:58

his consciousness- Right … basically.

Speaker: 00:54:00

It's kinda like he's, he's having a dream, and the dream, h- he, in

Speaker: 00:54:08

the dream, he wakes up, but he's…

Speaker: 00:54:12

And he's him, but he's, uh, he's not sick.

Speaker: 00:54:17

It's a different life.

Speaker: 00:54:18

Right.

Speaker: 00:54:19

And there's a horn, a car honking, uh, is what wakes him up.

Speaker: 00:54:24

This beep, beep- Mm … beep, beep.

Speaker: 00:54:27

And he wakes up and, um, he goes downstairs, and it's his brother who

Speaker: 00:54:32

in the, you know, real life, in the show, is this very trim, gay guy.

Speaker: 00:54:38

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:54:38

Always dressed with a suit and tie and all that.

Speaker: 00:54:40

And, um, but in this life, he's like a kind of a hip surfer dude.

Speaker: 00:54:47

He's like, "Yo, man, come on, we're going surfing.

Speaker: 00:54:50

What are you doing?" He's like, "Oh, I was asleep," and like, and, "Get in the van,

Speaker: 00:54:54

man." He jumps in the back of the van.

Speaker: 00:54:56

And their dad is driving- Mm-hmm … who's dead.

Speaker: 00:54:59

Right.

Speaker: 00:55:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:55:00

Who- whose death starts the show.

Speaker: 00:55:02

Right.

Speaker: 00:55:03

Right?

Speaker: 00:55:03

Um, and they go, and I, I won't go through the whole thing, but it's, it's

Speaker: 00:55:07

so hallucinatory and so fascinating.

Speaker: 00:55:12

It captures the logic of the dream state better than anything I've ever seen.

Speaker: 00:55:17

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:55:17

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:55:18

I'll have to go back and watch that one.

Speaker: 00:55:19

Oh, man, it's so good.

Speaker: 00:55:21

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:55:21

It's so moving.

Speaker: 00:55:22

And, and, and the genius of it is that, you know, you're in Nate's consciousness,

Speaker: 00:55:30

you're in Nate's dream- Mm-hmm

Speaker: 00:55:32

but at some point, it shifts into his brother's consciousness.

Speaker: 00:55:39

And so when it, at the end of it, it's his brother who wakes up, and

Speaker: 00:55:43

you realize you're in his mind now.

Speaker: 00:55:46

Huh.

Speaker: 00:55:46

So there's like this mind meld.

Speaker: 00:55:48

You, you pass from one consciousness to another- Right … in the

Speaker: 00:55:53

dream that they're both having.

Speaker: 00:55:55

Right.

Speaker: 00:55:56

It, it's fucking crazy.

Speaker: 00:55:58

It's inter- In Spanish- It was a great show … you don't say,

Speaker: 00:56:01

"I had a, I dreamt of you." You say, "I dreamt with you." Huh.

Speaker: 00:56:07

There's a lot of thing … I'm learning, trying to learn Spanish

Speaker: 00:56:09

now, and there's a lot of things like that that are, like, interesting.

Speaker: 00:56:12

I can't think of any offhand, but, like, the way that, you know, one culture

Speaker: 00:56:16

says a sentence or the way that they express in a thought as opposed to

Speaker: 00:56:20

the way America expresses a thought.

Speaker: 00:56:21

It says so much about the way the culture actually- Yeah … you

Speaker: 00:56:23

know, um- The way they think.

Speaker: 00:56:25

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:56:25

Well, Spanish, one really interesting thing is love.

Speaker: 00:56:29

You can say love in different ways in Spanish.

Speaker: 00:56:32

Right, right, right.

Speaker: 00:56:32

There are different kinds of love.

Speaker: 00:56:34

Right.

Speaker: 00:56:34

Gusta, amor, right?

Speaker: 00:56:36

Right.

Speaker: 00:56:36

Right.

Speaker: 00:56:36

Te amo o te quiero.

Speaker: 00:56:38

Si.

Speaker: 00:56:39

I want you.

Speaker: 00:56:40

I love you.

Speaker: 00:56:41

Like, you would never say … I, I mean, I don't think you would say

Speaker: 00:56:44

to your mother te quiero, right?

Speaker: 00:56:46

That, that's more of a- Right … desire-based love.

Speaker: 00:56:50

Right.

Speaker: 00:56:50

And we just- Whereas te amo is more spiritual love What would I say to

Speaker: 00:56:57

my mother?

Speaker: 00:56:57

Me gusta?

Speaker: 00:56:58

I like my mother.

Speaker: 00:57:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:57:01

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:57:02

A mi me gusta mi madre.

Speaker: 00:57:04

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:57:04

That's the, that's the phrase I know well 'cause of the Manu Chao song.

Speaker: 00:57:08

It's like the- Oh, right.

Speaker: 00:57:09

Yeah … the one, like, it's, I know lo- some of the, I know some of the

Speaker: 00:58:46

They don't put the… Signs don't say.

Speaker: 00:58:48

All the restaurants there, it just says, like the pig restaurants,

Speaker: 00:58:51

you know, the pork restaurants, there's the picture of the pig.

Speaker: 00:58:53

The cow restaurants, picture of the cow.

Speaker: 00:58:55

There's no picture of a dog for the dog restaurant, but it says like,

Speaker: 00:58:58

"Food for the good of the…" It's always about the male libido, a

Speaker: 00:59:02

lot of these weird foods, you know?

Speaker: 00:59:03

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:59:03

And they think that dog is good for like, you know, male libido.

Speaker: 00:59:07

And my, I was, I was hard for like a week after I ate that dog.

Speaker: 00:59:10

So, so it's true.

Speaker: 00:59:11

It's true.

Speaker: 00:59:11

It works.

Speaker: 00:59:13

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:13

Yeah, it's a strange thing in Asian cultures that, uh, the whole male

Speaker: 00:59:19

virility seems to be a huge concern.

Speaker: 00:59:21

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:22

You know, we're gonna eat ground-up tiger bones and bear paws and- It's

Speaker: 00:59:26

always the weird things that are…

Speaker: 00:59:28

It's always about- … snake.

Speaker: 00:59:29

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:29

It's always about getting it up.

Speaker: 00:59:31

It's like, is it… M- you know, maybe there's so much soy in the diet.

Speaker: 00:59:37

There is a lot of soy.

Speaker: 00:59:38

You know?

Speaker: 00:59:38

But- And fermented food, yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:39

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:40

Well, fermented food's okay, but soy is an estrogenic compound.

Speaker: 00:59:44

It has a lot of estrogen in it.

Speaker: 00:59:46

So I, uh, too much soy can fuck with your testosterone.

Speaker: 00:59:52

Oh, really?

Speaker: 00:59:52

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:53

Oh, how much soy is too much soy, I guess is the question, because I

Speaker: 00:59:55

eat a lot of, I eat a lot of hummus.

Speaker: 00:59:57

Is there soy in hummus?

Speaker: 00:59:59

Like soybeans, yeah, isn't it?

Speaker: 01:00:00

No, it's not.

Speaker: 01:00:01

It's chickpeas.

Speaker: 01:00:01

It's chickpeas.

Speaker: 01:00:01

It's chickpeas.

Speaker: 01:00:02

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:00:02

Jesus Christ.

Speaker: 01:00:03

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:00:04

Brains.

Speaker: 01:00:04

No, you're okay.

Speaker: 01:00:05

Brain, I'm all right.

Speaker: 01:00:05

Yeah, I don't eat a lot of soybeans, so.

Speaker: 01:00:07

I mean, edamame now and again, but… Yeah, soy, you know, to- tofu, tempeh.

Speaker: 01:00:12

Oh, right.

Speaker: 01:00:13

I'm not a big tofu- Soy sauce, obviously.

Speaker: 01:00:14

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:00:15

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:00:15

Right.

Speaker: 01:00:16

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:00:16

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:00:17

Um, what was I gonna say?

Speaker: 01:00:20

Something about erections probably.

Speaker: 01:00:23

No, no.

Speaker: 01:00:24

No, nothing about erections.

Speaker: 01:00:26

So, uh, so what's next for you?

Speaker: 01:00:28

You, you're kinda like in a transitional period of your life?

Speaker: 01:00:33

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:00:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:00:34

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:00:34

I'm trying, you know, I, I got laid off and, um, I decided to just lean into

Speaker: 01:00:39

it and, uh- You're doing a podcast.

Speaker: 01:00:41

Yeah, I started… I've been meaning to start this podcast for years and, uh,

Speaker: 01:00:45

like 10 years ago, I had this thought of like, that I've met friend… I was

Speaker: 01:00:49

living in New York at the time, and I, you know, had these friends that I met

Speaker: 01:00:51

in New York, but I really knew nothing about their lives up until they met me.

Speaker: 01:00:55

And so I actually did a bunch of recordings with, with my friends and was

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just like, "Let's sit down to do like just a recording interview." And it was

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super interesting, 'cause you get to know somebody, like their childhood and

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all that, and I thought, "Oh, there's something interesting here." And but

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didn't actually do it, and then my nephew, who's, uh, 15 now- 14, Dad.

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15. And, uh, he was visiting me this last spring and, you know, he's a teenager,

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so we weren't talking a whole lot.

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But then I was like, "Do you wanna record a podcast?" And as soon

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as he got those headphones on and the mic in front of him, he was

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opening up like he never had before.

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Yeah.

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And I thought, "Oh, there's something, there's something here."

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And, uh, so yeah, I just tried to, started to, started to… I, I, you know, got

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some friends to do some interviews and then I got some other people that I just

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thought were interesting on the internet to come in, and then I did the travelogue

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as I was traveling across the country.

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I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the podcast is, but

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generally it's, like, uh, me trying to find connection after working

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alone for four and a half years.

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Mm. And also giving other people a chance to connect, but also

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exploring the idea of connection.

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I don't know.

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I'm still figuring it out, but people seem to like it.

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What's it called?

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1fjef.

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1fjef?

Speaker: 01:02:04

Yeah.

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Oh.

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I didn't know what to call it, and then somebody was like… You know,

Speaker: 01:02:08

you… 'Cause I'm on the internet, my us- my, my handle's always 1fjef.

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Like, my website's 1fjef, all the- Right.

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And so they're like, "You should just call it 1fjef." So why do

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you have one F in your name?

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'Cause I took… 'Cause I was pretentious when I was in college-

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Oh … and I took the other F off.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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And actually, I interviewed a guy on my last episode who's

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also named Jef Taylor with one F.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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There's actually a few of them.

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I'm friends on Facebook.

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Yeah.

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Oh.

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So anyway, I interviewed him just because it was, you know, it was funny.

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And, uh, he took his off for the same exact reason.

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He was in college and he was pretentious.

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He took the other F off.

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So, uh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I don't know.

Speaker: 01:02:43

That, that's… It seems ineffective as far as pretentious gestures go.

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Yeah, but I've saved a lot of time 'cause I don't have to write that second F. Yeah.

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Like, over the years that adds up.

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Yeah.

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So, um- Yeah.

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It'll, that'll add up.

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And it's pronounced the same.

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That's what I'm saying.

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It seems like if you wanna be pretentious, you need to force people

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to pronounce something differently.

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I mean, as a joke sometimes I'll be like- Like, it's not Jef … "No,

Speaker: 01:03:03

it's actually Jef." You- You clip it.

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You gotta clip it a- It's Jef or something, you know?

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Yeah.

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No.

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I'm just gonna go… It's worked w- it's worked out well, 'cause this was

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like, when I first, when I did it, it was like '90s, mid-'90s, so… And the

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internet wasn't really a big thing then.

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But as it turns out, like, for my, uh, video editing stuff and

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all that, it's been very great.

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'Cause there's a ton of Jef Taylors.

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Right.

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But, you know, just one F, Jef Taylor, it's like I get the first result.

Speaker: 01:03:26

There aren't that many.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So is your email Jef with one F Taylor- @ … @gmail.com?

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Yeah.

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Really?

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You got, you got it?

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I got it.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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I was, I was in there early.

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The other one Jef, onefjefs- Jef must be pissed off … yeah.

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I've had people offer me to buy the URL, onefjef.com, for like

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3,000 bucks and- Oh … mm-mm, nah.

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My- the number's gotta be higher than that.

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Yeah.

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Oh, you got the URL too?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes I get annoyed 'cause there'll be like a new platform comes out and I'll

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have to get like onefjef something else.

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I'll have to add like 73 'cause that's the year I was born or something stupid.

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Mm. And that frustrates me because I don't- You're accustomed to just-

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Yeah … being that guy … I wanted to be the only onefjef, but, uh,

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you know, you have to- It's a sense of entitlement- Yeah, a little bit

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that I'm detecting here, onefjef.

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Protecting my brand.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But it feels dark to say just protecting my brand, but- … this

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is the world we live in right now.

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Um, so.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So yeah.

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Um, but the podcast has been great 'cause like I'm not good at, you know,

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s- you know, you work alone and I'm not, I was not great about reaching

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out to people and like, you know, I, I live alone in my house and, um.

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And yeah, it was really isolating.

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And, uh, it's been really good to like… I mean, it feels good to sit down and talk

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to somebody for an hour or two and, um, kind of go deep with them and, you know,

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give them space to tell their story too.

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'Cause I feel like- Mm … a lot of people don't… How often

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do you sit down and like…

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Are you like forced to sit down and just talk to somebody?

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Like, we have to continue talking.

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If this conversation starts to die, we gotta keep it going, you know?

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Mm. Uh, and that's unlike any other kinda situation.

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You know?

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Like you're at a bar talking to a friend, the conversation kinda dies out,

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and you're like, "All right, well…"

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Um, and yeah, I kinda think that's where it gets into interesting places,

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you know, when you're continue, when you're like forced to keep going, that's

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when you start to get interesting.

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You ever hitchhike?

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No, no.

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Um- I, I think podcasting's a lot like, it reminds me a lot of hitchhiking

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because of what you're talking about.

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That there's like a, there's an aspect of it that's kind of contrived and forced- Mm

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… that, you know, here we are in this car and- Right … I want, I don't want you to

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kick me out- Right … 'cause it's raining out there- I need to be entertaining

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for you … and it's dark- Yeah … and I'm trying to get to, you know, wherever

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the hell I'm trying to get to, and yeah.

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So y- there, there's, I don't know.

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I mean, I guess it, it's, it's the kinda thing that for me started

Speaker: 01:05:44

out, the hitchhiking, it starts out

Speaker: 01:05:48

with some fake sincerity- Uh-huh … in the sense that, "Oh, hey, I'm gonna

Speaker: 01:05:54

pretend I'm interested in you because you stopped and picked me up." And-

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Right, right … you know, even though you're not the kind of person I would

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ever really talk to in normal life.

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Right.

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But then after doing that for a while, I, I found that my sincerity

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wasn't fake, that I was actually really interested in these people.

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Mm. And the exposure to these, to people I would never have come across otherwise-

Speaker: 01:06:18

Yeah … was actually really interesting.

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And you find places like of connection, right?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Or, or just like- Yeah, I mean, I guess that, that's a good way

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to, to say it, is connection.

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But it's also appreciation for someone that's totally alien to me.

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Right.

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You know?

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Right.

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Um, you know, a lot of… I, I hitchhiked when I was very young.

Speaker: 01:06:44

I was in college.

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I hitched a- across America a couple times, and from Montreal

Speaker: 01:06:49

to New York, uh And from Seattle to LA, I guess That's ballsy.

Speaker: 01:06:57

I mean, back then I guess it wasn't as … It seems more nefarious or dangerous now.

Speaker: 01:06:59

It was pretty, it was, it was the end- Yeah, yeah … of hitchhiking.

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Right.

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It was the early '80s.

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Mm. So it was definitely, you know, we were into the, you know, w- well,

Speaker: 01:07:10

well beyond the Zodiac Killer and Well, it was a little bit, yeah.

Speaker: 01:07:14

Yeah … all that shit.

Speaker: 01:07:15

Uh, I wouldn't do it now, uh, if I were young.

Speaker: 01:07:19

I, I mean, I'd do it here, you know, where you know everybody, but.

Speaker: 01:07:23

Right.

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Um, but yeah, the, the people that I met, I met some real interesting characters

Speaker: 01:07:30

that I never would've met otherwise.

Speaker: 01:07:34

You know, lonely, closeted gay guys.

Speaker: 01:07:38

A lot of it's that.

Speaker: 01:07:40

Um- And would they tell you?

Speaker: 01:07:41

Like, if you're, you're, if you're going, would they s- would they tell

Speaker: 01:07:43

you that they're gay at a certain point, or was it just- Uh, different-

Speaker: 01:07:47

'Cause in the '80s it was a different- … situations … mm-hmm But a lot of it

Speaker: 01:07:50

was, you know, I, I remember just this feeling of sadness of like, you know,

Speaker: 01:07:56

a guy in his 50s or 60s, kinda like conservative Christian guys just out

Speaker: 01:08:05

cruising around looking for like to have a connection with someone who doesn't

Speaker: 01:08:12

know him, has no way of- Oh, right.

Speaker: 01:08:14

Right … you know, the total anonymity.

Speaker: 01:08:16

Right You know, and they'd, uh, generally they'd hint at it and, you know … So

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you have a girlfriend, you know.

Speaker: 01:08:24

Oh, I see.

Speaker: 01:08:24

So sometimes you were getting picked up because they thought you could … Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like, the, the, they would, you know.

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Um, yeah, there was that, and a lot of it was, you know, uh,

Speaker: 01:08:35

kinda Christian, like, charity.

Speaker: 01:08:38

Right Like, you know- Right … I'll stop 'cause you need help, and also I'm gonna

Speaker: 01:08:41

tell you about Christ- Yeah … and- Yeah … you're gonna see the light

Speaker: 01:08:45

and all that, which was always an interesting thing to finesse, you know?

Speaker: 01:08:50

Right.

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Right.

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Because you don't wanna- Right … tell them, like, "I'm a…" You don't

Speaker: 01:08:54

wanna close, like- Yeah, yeah

Speaker: 01:08:55

you want them to think there's a chance of a sale.

Speaker: 01:08:58

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:08:58

You know?

Speaker: 01:08:58

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:08:59

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:09:00

Until you get to your exit or whatever.

Speaker: 01:09:01

At a certain point, yeah.

Speaker: 01:09:03

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:09:03

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:09:04

I remember one, one guy, uh, it must've been, like, in Nevada or somewhere, like

Speaker: 01:09:09

way out in the desert, like desolate, and he was laying the Christian thing

Speaker: 01:09:15

on real heavy, and I don't remember what happened, if, if he was being

Speaker: 01:09:21

aggressive with me or threatening or what, but I got kinda pissed off

Speaker: 01:09:27

and was just like, "Okay," you know?

Speaker: 01:09:30

Uh, enough of that.

Speaker: 01:09:31

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:09:31

Like, the, the drugs.

Speaker: 01:09:32

Drop me off here.

Speaker: 01:09:32

Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And he's like, "Okay, yeah." And he pulled over and dropped me

Speaker: 01:09:36

off, and then I realized that I was … Like, there was a prison there.

Speaker: 01:09:40

And there were all these signs saying, "Do not pick up hitchhikers." Wah, wah, wah.

Speaker: 01:09:43

And I'm like, "Oh, I'm gonna walk 30 miles now."

Speaker: 01:09:46

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:09:47

Uh Yeah, great.

Speaker: 01:09:48

Joke's on you.

Speaker: 01:09:49

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:09:50

It turns out Christ was the way.

Speaker: 01:09:53

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:09:53

I took the wrong way.

Speaker: 01:09:54

Yeah, I dated a born-again Christian when I was in my 20s.

Speaker: 01:09:57

Um, that was interesting.

Speaker: 01:09:59

Wait, didn't you tell me something … Was that in Korea?

Speaker: 01:10:02

No.

Speaker: 01:10:03

You had … You dated someone in Korea that was- I mean, I was living in

Speaker: 01:10:06

Korea when we were dating, but we da- started dating in Cleveland before that.

Speaker: 01:10:09

Oh.

Speaker: 01:10:09

Um, but yeah, she was born again.

Speaker: 01:10:11

She, she went to, she moved to Israel, uh, to Jerusalem to go get

Speaker: 01:10:15

her master's in religious studies.

Speaker: 01:10:16

Oh.

Speaker: 01:10:17

And, uh, I moved to South Korea to teach English.

Speaker: 01:10:19

Right.

Speaker: 01:10:19

And, um, and yeah, so she, at one point, we were talking about getting

Speaker: 01:10:23

married, and she said she couldn't marry somebody who wasn't a Christian.

Speaker: 01:10:27

And I really loved this woman, uh, so I was like, "Well, I should at least find

Speaker: 01:10:31

out. Maybe I'll, I'll try. Let me give it a shot." So I read the entire Bible.

Speaker: 01:10:35

Whole thing.

Speaker: 01:10:36

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:10:36

Quite boring, frankly.

Speaker: 01:10:37

Um- Yeah … and, uh, and thought about it and, you know, tried praying and stuff.

Speaker: 01:10:42

And at the end of it, I didn't … It didn't take.

Speaker: 01:10:45

Didn't take.

Speaker: 01:10:46

Um, too many- … too many problems.

Speaker: 01:10:49

Um, but turns out she ended up meeting a Jewish guy in- Right … in

Speaker: 01:10:51

Israel, and falling in love with this Jewish guy, and then she moved to

Speaker: 01:10:54

New York and converted to Judaism.

Speaker: 01:10:56

So she's a Jew now.

Speaker: 01:10:58

And what were you raised as?

Speaker: 01:11:00

I was raised Catholic, and I guess I'm still a Catholic according to the rules.

Speaker: 01:11:03

'Cause you, you got baptized.

Speaker: 01:11:05

Uh, confirmed is the thing.

Speaker: 01:11:06

You have to get- Oh, you were confirmed?

Speaker: 01:11:08

You have to get confirmed, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:11:08

Oh, I never got confirmed.

Speaker: 01:11:10

Oh, well, you're not a Christian then.

Speaker: 01:11:11

But I am circumcised, so- Yeah, I mean, I mean, they- … that's something

Speaker: 01:11:14

… circumcised us all back then.

Speaker: 01:11:15

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:11:15

Let's just be clear, yeah.

Speaker: 01:11:16

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:11:17

Unfortunately.

Speaker: 01:11:18

I mean, you should get some credit for that.

Speaker: 01:11:20

Jesus.

Speaker: 01:11:20

You would think so.

Speaker: 01:11:21

Jesus.

Speaker: 01:11:22

I mean, what kind of credit?

Speaker: 01:11:24

You know, a few heaven credits.

Speaker: 01:11:26

Yeah, maybe we'll get a more comfortable cloud up there.

Speaker: 01:11:28

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:11:28

You ever hear that Louis C.K. joke where he's like, "Wouldn't

Speaker: 01:11:30

it be funny if you, like, go to heaven, and you're like, 'Really?

Speaker: 01:11:33

It's, like, a guy with a beard and everything?'" Like, come on.

Speaker: 01:11:36

Oh.

Speaker: 01:11:40

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:11:40

Louis C.K.'s not going to heaven.

Speaker: 01:11:43

Um, yeah, I mean, those are all tricky ones, that whole, that whole cancel

Speaker: 01:11:48

culture something that happened back then.

Speaker: 01:11:49

It got a little out of control.

Speaker: 01:11:51

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:11:51

The wor- for me, the worst was the case of a psychiatrist at Columbia.

Speaker: 01:11:57

He taught at Columbia University.

Speaker: 01:12:00

He was, um, you know, on the board of all these hospitals,

Speaker: 01:12:05

very prominent psychiatrist.

Speaker: 01:12:06

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:12:07

And there was a photograph on Instagram of this model from,

Speaker: 01:12:12

I think she's from Ethiopia.

Speaker: 01:12:14

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:12:15

And she's known as, like, the Ebony Queen or something.

Speaker: 01:12:19

Like, she's Black, Black, Black.

Speaker: 01:12:22

Sure.

Speaker: 01:12:22

Right?

Speaker: 01:12:22

Totally Black.

Speaker: 01:12:24

And that's kinda her claim to fame, that she's… Obviously, she's beautiful,

Speaker: 01:12:29

but she's also extremely Black.

Speaker: 01:12:31

Very dark skin, right.

Speaker: 01:12:32

And there was a photograph, uh, that she posted or someone posted of her,

Speaker: 01:12:38

I don't remember, um, like sitting at the edge of a bed with white sheets

Speaker: 01:12:43

and white pillowcases and a white wall- Uh-huh … behind her, and so

Speaker: 01:12:46

her, you know, the exposure- Yeah, yeah … of the photograph really

Speaker: 01:12:49

accentuates her, the darkness of her skin.

Speaker: 01:12:52

And people were commenting how beautiful it was and, you know, s- whatever,

Speaker: 01:12:58

and this guy said, um, "Whether a freak of nature or not, she's

Speaker: 01:13:04

certainly a beautiful woman." Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:13:08

He got fired from all his positions.

Speaker: 01:13:10

Huh.

Speaker: 01:13:10

He was, you know, publicly humiliated.

Speaker: 01:13:13

She claimed to be, you know, devastated by being- Of course

Speaker: 01:13:17

called a freak.

Speaker: 01:13:18

Of course.

Speaker: 01:13:19

And- I mean, it's not the best wording, let's be clear, but, like, th- that's,

Speaker: 01:13:23

that's an over, overresponse, yeah.

Speaker: 01:13:24

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:13:24

Well, LeBron James is a freak of nature.

Speaker: 01:13:28

Mike Tyson's- Right … a freak of nature.

Speaker: 01:13:29

Right, yeah.

Speaker: 01:13:30

Uh, you know, uh, the guy who holds the world record for the

Speaker: 01:13:34

100-meter dash is a freak of nature.

Speaker: 01:13:36

Right.

Speaker: 01:13:36

Of course.

Speaker: 01:13:36

There's nothing inherently negative about saying someone's a freak of nature.

Speaker: 01:13:40

It just means they're outside of the normal distribution of any given trait.

Speaker: 01:13:45

Sure.

Speaker: 01:13:45

I guess it's probably, in this case, it was probably because the

Speaker: 01:13:48

trait was Blackness, you know?

Speaker: 01:13:49

Right.

Speaker: 01:13:50

Right.

Speaker: 01:13:50

Which- Right … you know, nobody's preten- uh, there's nothing

Speaker: 01:13:53

inherently negative about being Black.

Speaker: 01:13:55

No, of course not.

Speaker: 01:13:56

So- But that actually, you're right.

Speaker: 01:13:57

I mean, that actually- So I don't see what his sin is.

Speaker: 01:13:59

I don't see what his crime is.

Speaker: 01:14:01

No.

Speaker: 01:14:01

It, it, it's like I don't get it.

Speaker: 01:14:04

It, it seems to me that the people who are offended are expressing racism, not him.

Speaker: 01:14:09

Right.

Speaker: 01:14:10

That's interesting.

Speaker: 01:14:11

Right?

Speaker: 01:14:11

I mean, I could certainly understand why that would blow up as an offensive thing,

Speaker: 01:14:15

but if you actually dig into it, then…

Speaker: 01:14:18

He wasn't expressing racism.

Speaker: 01:14:20

He was simply saying, "She is one of the darkest skinned

Speaker: 01:14:24

people I've ever seen." Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:14:27

Therefore, she's outside of the normal distribution of that particular trait.

Speaker: 01:14:32

But it's… There's nothing inherently negative about it, unless

Speaker: 01:14:36

you think being Black is negative.

Speaker: 01:14:38

Right.

Speaker: 01:14:39

Right?

Speaker: 01:14:39

Yeah, I get it.

Speaker: 01:14:39

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:14:39

If someone's seven feet tall, you say, "Well, wow, he's a freak of nature,"

Speaker: 01:14:44

but you're not saying, you know, there's something inherently inferior about that.

Speaker: 01:14:49

It's the freak word that I think… It's the freak is a weird word, 'cause

Speaker: 01:14:52

it could be positive or negative in a way, you know what I mean?

Speaker: 01:14:54

Sure.

Speaker: 01:14:55

Um- Rick James, super freak.

Speaker: 01:14:57

Right.

Speaker: 01:14:57

Right.

Speaker: 01:14:58

She's super freaky.

Speaker: 01:14:59

And then it turns out he's got a woman chained up in his basement.

Speaker: 01:15:03

That's right.

Speaker: 01:15:04

He sure did.

Speaker: 01:15:05

He went to prison for that.

Speaker: 01:15:06

He sure, sure did.

Speaker: 01:15:07

I don't know if she was a super freak or you're the super freak, Rick.

Speaker: 01:15:10

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:15:11

If you're Rick super freak, there's probably something going on.

Speaker: 01:15:13

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:15:13

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:15:14

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:15:15

Um- Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker: 01:15:16

I, I, I mean, you know, just talking about cancel culture.

Speaker: 01:15:19

That, that one was so unjust, and the Aziz Ansari one.

Speaker: 01:15:23

Like, what was his sin?

Speaker: 01:15:25

There's a lot of them.

Speaker: 01:15:25

They kind of- It was ridiculous … got out of hand.

Speaker: 01:15:27

Um, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:15:29

Woody Allen, I just r- heard an interview with Woody Allen the other day.

Speaker: 01:15:32

I listened to one.

Speaker: 01:15:33

It was, he was on, like, the Bill Maher podcast, yeah.

Speaker: 01:15:35

Oh, I didn't, I, I didn't see.

Speaker: 01:15:37

I, I saw some clips of that, but I guess he's doing the rounds 'cause-

Speaker: 01:15:40

He has a book … he has a novel out.

Speaker: 01:15:41

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:15:41

The one I heard was with Barry Weiss on, uh- Hmm … Free Press.

Speaker: 01:15:45

Right.

Speaker: 01:15:46

Um, but it was interesting 'cause, you know, she asked him about all the…

Speaker: 01:15:50

I guess Bill Maher probably did, too, but all the, you know, controversy about

Speaker: 01:15:55

things he was accused of and all that.

Speaker: 01:15:57

And it was really interesting because he was so He was so chill about it I

Speaker: 01:16:03

know, the same thing on Bill Maher too.

Speaker: 01:16:04

Yeah, he's like… Yeah.

Speaker: 01:16:05

And it's, 'cause he's like this famously neurotic, you know, if you

Speaker: 01:16:09

said neurotic American man, Woody Allen would probably be what comes- Yeah

Speaker: 01:16:14

to most people's mind.

Speaker: 01:16:15

Right.

Speaker: 01:16:16

And yet here he is being, you know, vilified publicly, and he was basically

Speaker: 01:16:21

like, "Eh, I know I didn't do it, and I don't really care." Yeah.

Speaker: 01:16:25

That's basic- Yeah, Wood- that's what he, what he said.

Speaker: 01:16:26

And I, I, and like I think Woody Allen's kind of… I mean, what,

Speaker: 01:16:29

marrying your stepdaughter's a weird, it's a weird thing to do.

Speaker: 01:16:32

Sure But, um, it's not- But not illegal No, not at all.

Speaker: 01:16:34

And I don't think he did the, the other stuff, but- Yeah … um, but

Speaker: 01:16:38

that's, nobody wants to hear that.

Speaker: 01:16:39

They wanna hear that he's bad.

Speaker: 01:16:41

Um- Yeah … which, you know.

Speaker: 01:16:43

And the funny thing about the, the Bill Maher one was like at one point

Speaker: 01:16:46

he said, uh, he was asking about Trump, and he was like, "Yeah."

Speaker: 01:16:51

Woody Allen said something to the effect of like, "Yeah, I would like to

Speaker: 01:16:53

work with Trump 'cause I would like to direct him." And he was kinda saying

Speaker: 01:16:55

that, "I would wanna d- direct him and make him do better things." But

Speaker: 01:16:58

of course the media's headline was, "Woody Allen says he wants to work

Speaker: 01:17:01

with Woody A- or with, with Trump."

Speaker: 01:17:03

Right.

Speaker: 01:17:03

And it's like, come on.

Speaker: 01:17:05

Come on.

Speaker: 01:17:05

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:17:06

The mainstream media is the problem Yeah.

Speaker: 01:17:10

Yeah, you can't win with the media.

Speaker: 01:17:12

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:17:12

Although you've been on the other side of that, right?

Speaker: 01:17:14

You've- Yeah, and I, th- so they're, they're, I think, a big part of the

Speaker: 01:17:17

problem too, that 24-hour news cycle and the, uh, the nonstop punditry,

Speaker: 01:17:21

and we have to, we have to be divided.

Speaker: 01:17:23

We have to have… There's no middle ground.

Speaker: 01:17:25

There's, you have to stay on either side of this because

Speaker: 01:17:26

that's the way we like you to be.

Speaker: 01:17:28

We want you to hate each other so much that you're not paying

Speaker: 01:17:31

attention to the way we're continuing to fleece the country,

Speaker: 01:17:34

um, and profit off of our offices.

Speaker: 01:17:37

Uh, yeah.

Speaker: 01:17:39

And the media's even complicit because then the corporate,

Speaker: 01:17:41

you know, the corporate money.

Speaker: 01:17:42

It's all- Of course, yeah … the political media complex and all that.

Speaker: 01:17:44

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:17:44

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:17:44

They make money from the drama.

Speaker: 01:17:47

Yeah, and yeah.

Speaker: 01:17:49

Trump's making a fortune off of this presidency.

Speaker: 01:17:51

I mean, it's… Like, the number of things that he's done that, like,

Speaker: 01:17:54

if Democrats even tried to do it, it would be like, "Are you kidding me?"

Speaker: 01:17:57

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:17:58

Like, yeah.

Speaker: 01:17:59

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:18:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:18:00

I, I saw a quote from, uh, Hannah Ar- Ardent.

Speaker: 01:18:05

Arendt, I think.

Speaker: 01:18:07

Arendt.

Speaker: 01:18:07

That's what I always thought.

Speaker: 01:18:07

That's what I always thought it was, Hannah Arendt.

Speaker: 01:18:09

It's D-T, isn't it?

Speaker: 01:18:10

H, or… Anyway.

Speaker: 01:18:11

She should've changed her name.

Speaker: 01:18:13

Yeah, just to make it easier for people to say.

Speaker: 01:18:14

Take, take that last T off.

Speaker: 01:18:15

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:18:15

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:18:16

Yeah.

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It, it's a name I've read thousands of times, but never really

Speaker: 01:18:20

heard pronounced, I don't think.

Speaker: 01:18:22

Uh, but she said something about how, you know, I guess she was

Speaker: 01:18:27

talking about the rise of fascism.

Speaker: 01:18:29

Mm. Um, but she said something about how, uh, the, the sort of embrace of cruelty

Speaker: 01:18:37

and, and the like um, like adolescent delight in, um, flouting- Mm-hmm

Speaker: 01:18:46

conventional norms and all that, um, was refreshing for people because

Speaker: 01:18:52

it exposed the hypocrisy upon which the culture had been based.

Speaker: 01:18:57

Mm. And, and I feel like that's really what's going on now, where

Speaker: 01:19:01

it's- Mm-hmm … you know, what we're talking about with the sort

Speaker: 01:19:04

of- The sort of polite country club corruption that's been going on- Uh-huh

Speaker: 01:19:10

for decades and decades.

Speaker: 01:19:12

Right.

Speaker: 01:19:12

Right, let's take the mask off.

Speaker: 01:19:13

And then, yeah, and someone comes along and says, "Well, no. Well, of course I

Speaker: 01:19:17

don't pay taxes. I'm not stupid." Right.

Speaker: 01:19:19

You know?

Speaker: 01:19:20

Right.

Speaker: 01:19:21

Why would I pay taxes?

Speaker: 01:19:22

I'm a millionaire.

Speaker: 01:19:23

I hire people to make sure I don't pay taxes.

Speaker: 01:19:25

Like, that's… There's something refreshing about that.

Speaker: 01:19:27

Yeah, and the only reason he could do that is 'cause he had his mo-

Speaker: 01:19:29

he had all his own money, you know?

Speaker: 01:19:31

Like, he's a rich guy.

Speaker: 01:19:32

His dad's money.

Speaker: 01:19:33

So, right, his dad's money.

Speaker: 01:19:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:19:34

But whatever.

Speaker: 01:19:35

Um, yeah, so he could, he could say, "Fuck you" to everybody,

Speaker: 01:19:39

um- Yeah … which he kinda did.

Speaker: 01:19:41

Well, yeah.

Speaker: 01:19:41

He's ac- I mean, that, to me, there's…

Speaker: 01:19:45

As I despise Trump, but there are things about him that are refreshing.

Speaker: 01:19:50

One of them is all these people who have fuck-you money who

Speaker: 01:19:54

never say, "Fuck you." Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:19:56

Including the people who aren't saying, "Fuck you" to Trump right now.

Speaker: 01:19:59

Mm. Which is why he doesn't respect them.

Speaker: 01:20:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:20:01

It's like- Yeah … if Jef Bezos can't say, "Fuck you" to Trump, who can?

Speaker: 01:20:05

You know?

Speaker: 01:20:06

Or Musk- Yeah … or whatever.

Speaker: 01:20:07

It's like, what, what is the purpose of all that money if it

Speaker: 01:20:10

doesn't buy you the freedom from having to kiss somebody's ass?

Speaker: 01:20:14

Well, you want more money.

Speaker: 01:20:15

I think that's the thing.

Speaker: 01:20:16

But why?

Speaker: 01:20:16

I, I think- It doesn't… If, if this mo… It's like,

Speaker: 01:20:19

it's like having more food.

Speaker: 01:20:21

You can't eat more food.

Speaker: 01:20:23

Right, but I think that, like, there's an emptiness in a lot of

Speaker: 01:20:26

these people's souls, and a lot of people just in general, that they're

Speaker: 01:20:29

trying to fill with something.

Speaker: 01:20:31

And I think that, you know, the line always, you know,

Speaker: 01:20:32

the bar keeps going up, right?

Speaker: 01:20:34

So I think that once you start accumulating money, or even becoming

Speaker: 01:20:37

successful in any field, you keep wanting to get higher and higher,

Speaker: 01:20:40

and I think it becomes somewhat of an addiction, because if you're

Speaker: 01:20:42

not your money, then who are you?

Speaker: 01:20:43

Then I have to examine myself and try to, you know, realize, 'cause

Speaker: 01:20:46

the happiness doesn't come, 'cause they're still not happy and they

Speaker: 01:20:48

still have more and more money.

Speaker: 01:20:50

You know what I'm saying?

Speaker: 01:20:52

This is a good time for a commercial break.

Speaker: 01:20:54

Uh, those of you who are not- I think I have to- … supporting the podcast

Speaker: 01:20:57

at $5 a month or $50 a year are really missing out, 'cause I need that money.

Speaker: 01:21:02

I need it so bad.

Speaker: 01:21:03

Please, please send me your money.

Speaker: 01:21:07

I need more Yeti cups.

Speaker: 01:21:10

Wow, that's quite a commercial you just did there.

Speaker: 01:21:13

I think you're gonna get quite a few more subscribers from that.

Speaker: 01:21:15

You think so?

Speaker: 01:21:15

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:21:16

You think people are gonna sign up?

Speaker: 01:21:16

You'll get them to do it.

Speaker: 01:21:17

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:21:17

I've got nine Yeti cups.

Speaker: 01:21:19

I need 11.

Speaker: 01:21:21

I need- Why do you, why do you need so many Yeti cups?

Speaker: 01:21:23

'Cause I need to drink 11 cups of coffee at the same time.

Speaker: 01:21:27

Oh.

Speaker: 01:21:27

I might have 11, 11 people come by, who knows?

Speaker: 01:21:30

Oh, so it's just in case.

Speaker: 01:21:31

Just send me your money.

Speaker: 01:21:33

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:21:33

The … Don't … It doesn't matter what I'm gonna do with it.

Speaker: 01:21:35

Yeah, my mom has a lot of plastic cups in her

Speaker: 01:21:37

I'm like, she has, like, tons of these plastic cups.

Speaker: 01:21:39

And I'm always like, "Why do you have … " She's like, "But if some … What if

Speaker: 01:21:42

all these people come over?" Yeah.

Speaker: 01:21:43

Like, so she has 100 cups ready, at the ready for the big party that's

Speaker: 01:21:47

suddenly gonna happen at her house.

Speaker: 01:21:48

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:21:49

I, I'm not very, uh … I, I'm, I'm kind of anti-consumer in most things, but

Speaker: 01:21:54

I do have a, a problem with Yeti cups.

Speaker: 01:21:56

Huh, interesting.

Speaker: 01:21:57

Anya has pointed it out.

Speaker: 01:21:58

She's like, "You got another fucking Yeti cup?" I have one and I never use it.

Speaker: 01:22:02

Why not?

Speaker: 01:22:03

Because I use … I don't, I don't drink coffee out of those, number one.

Speaker: 01:22:05

I drink out of a mug, right?

Speaker: 01:22:07

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:22:07

And I just carry my water bottle, which is a Hydro Flask brand, if we're gonna go.

Speaker: 01:22:11

Oh, you're a Hydro Flask boy.

Speaker: 01:22:13

I'm a Hydro Flask boy.

Speaker: 01:22:14

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:22:14

Yes.

Speaker: 01:22:15

Yes.

Speaker: 01:22:15

What is it?

Speaker: 01:22:16

The VSCO girls, that's what they … You know, the VSCO girls would … And

Speaker: 01:22:19

it was, like, a thing five years ago.

Speaker: 01:22:21

And it's, like, a baggy sweatshirt and a Hydro Flask with stickers on it.

Speaker: 01:22:26

Um, so yeah, I guess I'm a VSCO boy.

Speaker: 01:22:30

In some way, yeah Maybe you're about to go VSCO trans on us.

Speaker: 01:22:34

I don't think so.

Speaker: 01:22:38

You got the stickers.

Speaker: 01:22:39

I don't feel that in me, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:22:40

You do have a lot of stickers.

Speaker: 01:22:41

I don't think the stickers necessarily mean that I'm trans.

Speaker: 01:22:44

So what's coming up in your, uh, on your podcast?

Speaker: 01:22:47

Do you have- Um- Do you sort of plan guests, or you just meet 'em as you go?

Speaker: 01:22:51

Uh, yeah, no, I plan 'em out.

Speaker: 01:22:54

Like, I'm arranging a few interviews, but, like, this one I'm just recording,

Speaker: 01:22:57

um… A lot of people say that they like to hear me just, like… 'Cause

Speaker: 01:23:00

when I was on the road trip, I just kind of would be driving and rambling

Speaker: 01:23:02

about wherever I was, and, you know.

Speaker: 01:23:03

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:23:04

Um, and a lot of people say they really love that.

Speaker: 01:23:07

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:23:07

So I'm trying to do more of those, uh, and, like, not make

Speaker: 01:23:10

it just about… Have you ever heard the podcast of Rumble Strip?

Speaker: 01:23:14

No.

Speaker: 01:23:14

So it's a really great podcast out of, uh, Vermont.

Speaker: 01:23:16

This woman does these, like, kind of, um, audio diary kind of things where

Speaker: 01:23:20

she'll… I don't know how to describe.

Speaker: 01:23:22

Some of them are just her thoughts, but some of them are interviews with

Speaker: 01:23:23

people, and some of them are, like, talking about a place and talking to

Speaker: 01:23:26

different people at that place, like this pond that they all went to, and

Speaker: 01:23:29

it's really interesting storytelling.

Speaker: 01:23:30

But, um, it kind of inspired me in a way to see what I could do and do

Speaker: 01:23:35

different things and try to, you know, make it whatever it wants to be, but

Speaker: 01:23:38

that makes it hard for people to under- Like, I need people to understand

Speaker: 01:23:41

what they're gonna get into when they start listening to the thing.

Speaker: 01:23:43

So at some point I need to, like, have some sort of a concept, but I don't know.

Speaker: 01:23:50

I'm, s- only 20 episodes in, so.

Speaker: 01:23:52

I don't know if you really need a concept There's all the information

Speaker: 01:23:57

on the internet about podcasting.

Speaker: 01:23:58

It really is too much for me because, you know, there's a lot of people that

Speaker: 01:24:01

are like, "A big problem with your…" Y- y- you know, you need to have a

Speaker: 01:24:04

very fairly specific… If you're just like, "Conversations with interesting

Speaker: 01:24:07

people," people are like, "Oh, that's every fucking podcast, right?"

Speaker: 01:24:11

Um, so n- yeah.

Speaker: 01:24:14

It can't… It needs to be more than that.

Speaker: 01:24:15

But then I looked at your description, and yours is very simple.

Speaker: 01:24:18

Yours is just like, you know, one sentence and very straight and to the point.

Speaker: 01:24:21

And kind of sarcastic, if I remember.

Speaker: 01:24:24

It didn't feel sarcastic.

Speaker: 01:24:25

I- isn't it like small batch, handcrafted?

Speaker: 01:24:30

I'm sort of making fun of that whole- No, I don't think it is

Speaker: 01:24:33

no?

Speaker: 01:24:33

I think it's more sincere.

Speaker: 01:24:34

Maybe you changed it without remembering.

Speaker: 01:24:35

Oh.

Speaker: 01:24:35

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:24:36

Yeah, could be.

Speaker: 01:24:36

I'll look it up, but… Yeah.

Speaker: 01:24:38

I, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker: 01:24:40

I, I have seen that advice that, you know, you gotta be specific

Speaker: 01:24:43

'cause you're trying to capture a, you know, people who are interested

Speaker: 01:24:47

in chainsaw art, you know- Right

Speaker: 01:24:49

or whatever.

Speaker: 01:24:49

Right, right, right.

Speaker: 01:24:50

Um, but I feel like there's another realm in which it's just people

Speaker: 01:24:56

get used to you, and they just wanna- Yeah … hang out with you.

Speaker: 01:25:00

Right, and I think that's kind of the line I'm trying to walk on.

Speaker: 01:25:02

'Cause my mom wants me to just do me talking 'cause she

Speaker: 01:25:04

was … I was on the road trip.

Speaker: 01:25:05

She's like, she at first she w- she was the first person that r- responded to

Speaker: 01:25:09

the podcast, and she was like, "Couldn't get through it. Maybe it's just my age."

Speaker: 01:25:14

And I was really, it really upset me 'cause it was like the very first review.

Speaker: 01:25:16

Oh.

Speaker: 01:25:16

It's my mother.

Speaker: 01:25:17

And she's the one who said you nailed it with the movie.

Speaker: 01:25:19

Yeah, but then I actually thought about it, 'cause it really bothered me, and

Speaker: 01:25:22

then I thought about it, and a couple days later, like I called her up, and

Speaker: 01:25:25

I was like, "Mom," or I texted her or something, and I was like, "Mom, like,

Speaker: 01:25:28

I know you didn't mean it, and I know you maybe don't entirely do podcasts

Speaker: 01:25:31

or whatever, but like, it really kind of hurt my feelings when you…

Speaker: 01:25:33

I put a lot of work into this," blah, blah, blah.

Speaker: 01:25:35

And she was like, "I'm so sorry." And then she texted me like two days later.

Speaker: 01:25:38

She's like, "Well, I listened to more podcasts, and now I understand what they

Speaker: 01:25:41

are, and yours is very good, Daniel."

Speaker: 01:25:45

Sounds like my mother.

Speaker: 01:25:46

Um, yeah, and now she loves it.

Speaker: 01:25:47

Now she's like, "Oh, I love your podcast.

Speaker: 01:25:49

It's just like you're sitting and talking to me." And I'm like, "All right." Yeah.

Speaker: 01:25:51

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:25:52

Yeah, my mom listens to mine.

Speaker: 01:25:54

Hi, Mom.

Speaker: 01:25:55

And, uh- My mom will probably listen to this one time … and it's cool.

Speaker: 01:25:58

Uh, and, and I'm really happy she's interested, and you know, it's nice that,

Speaker: 01:26:02

you know, we stay in touch in that sense.

Speaker: 01:26:04

Yeah, and I just feel connected to you.

Speaker: 01:26:05

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:26:06

But there's sometimes w- you know, uh, because of my research and, and my life,

Speaker: 01:26:11

sometimes the podcast, uh, is, you know, I'm talking to a sex worker- Yeah, yeah,

Speaker: 01:26:16

yeah … or a porn star or, you know, whatever, and I'm kinda like, "God, I

Speaker: 01:26:20

wish Mom weren't listening to this." Yeah, no, I feel the same way, and in some

Speaker: 01:26:24

ways my podcast has been like sometimes a way for me to communicate things that

Speaker: 01:26:29

I would never say directly to my mom.

Speaker: 01:26:30

Not on purpose, but like, "Oh, should I leave that in?" Because, you know.

Speaker: 01:26:34

Um, but yeah, uh, and one of the episodes that I got a little bit too deep about

Speaker: 01:26:39

family stuff, she didn't like that one.

Speaker: 01:26:41

Mm. But she didn't exactly say why, but she just didn't, she didn't like it.

Speaker: 01:26:44

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:26:45

But I knew why.

Speaker: 01:26:46

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:26:46

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:26:47

Um, but you can't just make a podcast for your mom, though.

Speaker: 01:26:51

Well, there's an idea.

Speaker: 01:26:52

Right, podcast for my mom.

Speaker: 01:26:54

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:26:55

This is for you, Mom.

Speaker: 01:26:56

Every episode.

Speaker: 01:26:57

Start a new one, yeah.

Speaker: 01:26:58

But then- People, people can, like, listen in if they want.

Speaker: 01:27:01

Right.

Speaker: 01:27:01

But it's really for Mom.

Speaker: 01:27:02

Right, right, right.

Speaker: 01:27:03

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:27:04

Memories of childhood and so forth.

Speaker: 01:27:05

Are you gonna have your mom on as a guest?

Speaker: 01:27:07

I would love to, but I don't think she wants to do that.

Speaker: 01:27:10

Are you sure?

Speaker: 01:27:10

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:27:11

You should ask her.

Speaker: 01:27:11

Well, I mean, I was gonna make… You should ask her, yeah.

Speaker: 01:27:13

Um, I was making a, um… I was trying to record, like, and I did a few.

Speaker: 01:27:19

I was thinking I wanted to record, like, a family, to keep family history and record

Speaker: 01:27:21

interviews with family members just to talk about stories so that, you know.

Speaker: 01:27:24

And, um, yeah, my mom, my mom didn't wanna do it.

Speaker: 01:27:28

Hmm.

Speaker: 01:27:28

Um, yeah.

Speaker: 01:27:30

I think my sister would, would do my podcast.

Speaker: 01:27:33

Um- A friend of mine just wrote a book.

Speaker: 01:27:35

Uh, I think it's just out, like, this week or, or coming out soon, called, uh,

Speaker: 01:27:41

I think it's called One Last Thing Before You Go: How to Interview Your Parents.

Speaker: 01:27:46

Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker: 01:27:48

Um, it's a really good book.

Speaker: 01:27:50

Kyle Tierman wrote it.

Speaker: 01:27:51

Um, I'm gonna have him on to talk about it.

Speaker: 01:27:55

But yeah, it's very much about, you know, h- how, how do you, how do

Speaker: 01:28:00

you get into these conversations?

Speaker: 01:28:02

And, you know, there, there are techniques that he, he outlines,

Speaker: 01:28:05

but then he intersperses it with his own conversations with his parents,

Speaker: 01:28:11

who are very interesting people.

Speaker: 01:28:14

Uh, you ever heard of a film- Oh, what the fuck's it called?

Speaker: 01:28:19

Uh, it's a, it's like a conspiracy film.

Speaker: 01:28:23

It's very well-known.

Speaker: 01:28:25

Um, all about, like, the free energy thing and, um, all, all this kind of

Speaker: 01:28:33

hocus pocus, uh, pseudoscience stuff.

Speaker: 01:28:37

Uh- Citizen Kane?

Speaker: 01:28:39

No?

Speaker: 01:28:40

No.

Speaker: 01:28:41

Fuck, I forget what it's called.

Speaker: 01:28:42

It's been a while.

Speaker: 01:28:42

Anyway, his, his mother and stepfather produced that.

Speaker: 01:28:46

All right.

Speaker: 01:28:46

And, uh, it's very controversial.

Speaker: 01:28:49

So a lot of it's him respecting them as people, but- Also … feeling like-

Speaker: 01:28:55

Yeah … he can't connect to them.

Speaker: 01:28:58

You know, they're like essentially flat Earthers, right?

Speaker: 01:29:00

Right, right.

Speaker: 01:29:00

And it's like, well, how do you relate to someone you love- Bridge

Speaker: 01:29:05

that gap, yeah … who believes things that are unbelievable to you?

Speaker: 01:29:08

So- Yeah.

Speaker: 01:29:10

Yeah, I have a friend in Columbus whose mom is, like, um, QAnon.

Speaker: 01:29:14

Um, still, still.

Speaker: 01:29:16

And, uh, yeah, she says they just don't, they just don't talk about it.

Speaker: 01:29:20

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:29:20

Um, but she doesn't… I mean, it's hard for QAnon people to not talk about it,

Speaker: 01:29:24

so it's always kind of infiltrating the, uh, the, uh… Is he still doing that?

Speaker: 01:29:28

The QAnon people, is that still happening?

Speaker: 01:29:30

I don't even know.

Speaker: 01:29:31

Like, is he still posting that whole thing?

Speaker: 01:29:33

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:29:33

Whatever happened to that?

Speaker: 01:29:33

I, I've, it's- That was a weird- It's one of those things … thing.

Speaker: 01:29:36

It's like Antifa.

Speaker: 01:29:37

Like, is there any there there?

Speaker: 01:29:40

Is there any- Yeah … is there anyone organizing these things?

Speaker: 01:29:43

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:29:43

Or is it just- Right … like a spontaneous eruption of lunacy?

Speaker: 01:29:48

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:29:48

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:29:49

The QAnon one, though, that was, that's a wacky one.

Speaker: 01:29:53

That's a wacky one.

Speaker: 01:29:54

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:29:55

So- All right.

Speaker: 01:29:56

Well, let's, uh, let's wrap this up.

Speaker: 01:29:58

I got a construction project that's about to begin.

Speaker: 01:30:02

Yeah, gotta finish the living room.

Speaker: 01:30:03

My carpenter shows up here in a few minutes, so.

Speaker: 01:30:06

How do you s- how do you… Does it drive you crazy all day, hearing the banging?

Speaker: 01:30:10

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:30:12

Get some noise-canceling headphones or something.

Speaker: 01:30:14

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:30:14

No, the thing is, I'm, I'm, like, on call too because, you know, either we're

Speaker: 01:30:19

working together- Oh, right, right … or he'll be working on things, and he'll be

Speaker: 01:30:24

like, "Hey, you want this done this way?"

Speaker: 01:30:26

Or, you know, "What, what wood do you wanna use here?

Speaker: 01:30:29

What's gonna…" So I'm always, like, answering questions and- Right,

Speaker: 01:30:33

right, right … you know, "Hey, can you order some more of these screws?

Speaker: 01:30:36

We're almost out of screws," and, "Okay." So you're like the assistant.

Speaker: 01:30:39

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:30:40

Right.

Speaker: 01:30:40

I'm, I'm part boss, part lackey.

Speaker: 01:30:42

Right.

Speaker: 01:30:43

You know?

Speaker: 01:30:43

You need the hammer?

Speaker: 01:30:44

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:30:45

Right.

Speaker: 01:30:45

I do spend time handing him tools if he's up on a ladder.

Speaker: 01:30:48

Right.

Speaker: 01:30:48

Today he's gonna be up on a ladder putting silicon around the window frames.

Speaker: 01:30:53

Big fan.

Speaker: 01:30:53

Uh- Silicon around the windows.

Speaker: 01:30:54

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 01:30:56

So- Well, it's gonna look great.

Speaker: 01:30:57

I mean, it already looks great, but yeah.

Speaker: 01:30:59

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:30:59

I can't wait to live in it.

Speaker: 01:31:01

I'm really tired of, of this, uh- You know, 'cause I can't write, I

Speaker: 01:31:07

can't read, I can't like- Why not?

Speaker: 01:31:09

Well, because I'm on call.

Speaker: 01:31:10

Oh, him.

Speaker: 01:31:10

You know?

Speaker: 01:31:11

Oh, you're noise assistant.

Speaker: 01:31:12

And there's like- Right … constant interruption.

Speaker: 01:31:13

Right, right, right.

Speaker: 01:31:14

So it's, it's hard to, you know, do my thing.

Speaker: 01:31:18

And how much longer does it take?

Speaker: 01:31:19

Uh, I think another month maybe.

Speaker: 01:31:22

Huh.

Speaker: 01:31:23

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:31:24

Well, that's not too bad.

Speaker: 01:31:25

Yeah, we just have to put the floor down in the big room.

Speaker: 01:31:29

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:31:29

And, uh, do the walls in the other smaller room But yeah, we're pretty much done,

Speaker: 01:31:35

and then it's just, uh, you know, spend a lot of money on shitty quality furniture.

Speaker: 01:31:40

Right.

Speaker: 01:31:41

Fill it up, right?

Speaker: 01:31:42

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:31:42

You gotta fill… Nest there.

Speaker: 01:31:43

A little scrap.

Speaker: 01:31:43

Gotta start to f- fill the nest.

Speaker: 01:31:45

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:31:45

Fill the nest.

Speaker: 01:31:46

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:31:47

One thing I'm looking forward to is I wanna buy, like, a nice stereo system.

Speaker: 01:31:53

Uh-huh.

Speaker: 01:31:53

Like, like what I had in high school, you know?

Speaker: 01:31:57

Right.

Speaker: 01:31:57

Speakers, receiver, amplifier.

Speaker: 01:32:00

Like- Right … I wanna kinda get back into that, although I don't have

Speaker: 01:32:03

any- Do you wanna do the vinyl thing?

Speaker: 01:32:04

You gonna do the vinyl thing?

Speaker: 01:32:05

No.

Speaker: 01:32:05

I- I don't- Yeah, I don't recommend it.

Speaker: 01:32:06

I'm trying to sell mine now, because I never listen to them.

Speaker: 01:32:09

Really?

Speaker: 01:32:09

I have, like, a bunch, and I got into it, and I was like,

Speaker: 01:32:11

"Nah." When I first got them, I'd listen to them, but I just don't.

Speaker: 01:32:14

And I realized I'm more of a singles guy than a whole album guy.

Speaker: 01:32:16

Hmm.

Speaker: 01:32:17

Like, I want the, the best thing of the thing.

Speaker: 01:32:19

I don't want the whole- You have, like, a fear of commitment?

Speaker: 01:32:21

Is that what it is?

Speaker: 01:32:21

Uh, you think that's what it is?

Speaker: 01:32:22

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:32:23

I was thinking about this yesterday when I was thinking about, I was watching,

Speaker: 01:32:25

like, I… The, the highlights, there was a football game, Denver versus the Giants,

Speaker: 01:32:29

where they came back blah, blah, blah.

Speaker: 01:32:30

And I didn't wa- I don't watch, like, whole games unless they're, like,

Speaker: 01:32:33

in the playoffs, the team, you know?

Speaker: 01:32:35

Um, but I just watch the highlights, and I thought, "Oh, that's something

Speaker: 01:32:38

about me is that I like the highlights," even with that and with, like, music.

Speaker: 01:32:42

Like, I like the singles.

Speaker: 01:32:43

I'm trying to think.

Speaker: 01:32:44

Maybe that's a fear of commitment, but I don't…

Speaker: 01:32:46

Maybe it is.

Speaker: 01:32:47

So what if they made, like, mini singles where it's just

Speaker: 01:32:51

the best parts of the song?

Speaker: 01:32:53

I mean, it really depends on how that was- … that was given to me.

Speaker: 01:32:55

Because if it was, like, was it, it's five seconds or 10

Speaker: 01:32:57

seconds, I feel like I wouldn't.

Speaker: 01:32:59

Like, In the Air Tonight, it would just be- Just the drum part

Speaker: 01:33:01

doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

Speaker: 01:33:02

But that drum part doesn't exist without the rest of the song.

Speaker: 01:33:05

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:33:05

You know?

Speaker: 01:33:05

But you know it.

Speaker: 01:33:06

You know the rest of the song already.

Speaker: 01:33:08

You do, but it's the vibe.

Speaker: 01:33:09

So you could just- No, I feel like I want the whole song.

Speaker: 01:33:12

I just want the best songs.

Speaker: 01:33:15

Like, I like the singles.

Speaker: 01:33:16

I'll listen to a whole album now and again, but generally speaking, with,

Speaker: 01:33:19

um, I'm just shuffling all the singles.

Speaker: 01:33:21

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:33:21

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:33:21

And I always wished that I could be an album person, 'cause I know people who

Speaker: 01:33:24

just listen to whole albums all the time.

Speaker: 01:33:25

Um- Is that an age thing?

Speaker: 01:33:27

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:33:28

'Cause, I mean, I'm older than you, and I, I, I came up, when

Speaker: 01:33:32

I came up, albums mattered.

Speaker: 01:33:33

Yeah, me too.

Speaker: 01:33:34

Not all of them.

Speaker: 01:33:35

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:33:35

But there were al- like Dark Side of the Moon is an album.

Speaker: 01:33:37

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker: 01:33:38

To listen to singles from that is kind of missing the point.

Speaker: 01:33:42

Right.

Speaker: 01:33:42

For sure.

Speaker: 01:33:42

That's one I'll listen to beginning to end.

Speaker: 01:33:44

But, and back in those days, it was like you'd buy, you know, I only

Speaker: 01:33:47

had so much money, you'd buy a CD or whatever, and that's the thing you had

Speaker: 01:33:50

to listen to over and over, because you didn't have Spotify or whatever.

Speaker: 01:33:53

Right.

Speaker: 01:33:53

Every song you ever could think, every song ever on your, at your

Speaker: 01:33:56

fingertips- Right … at all times, which is a blessing and a curse, really.

Speaker: 01:33:59

'Cause albums, people don't make albums anymore.

Speaker: 01:34:02

There, there is not, like- Yeah, not a lot of people anymore.

Speaker: 01:34:04

"Oh, this is going, this will be the third song on side B.

Speaker: 01:34:07

That's where it fits in." Right.

Speaker: 01:34:08

You know?

Speaker: 01:34:08

Like, nobody thinks that way.

Speaker: 01:34:09

Right.

Speaker: 01:34:10

There's not a lot of, like, concept albums anymore.

Speaker: 01:34:11

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:12

There's no Pink Floyd The Wall being made.

Speaker: 01:34:14

No.

Speaker: 01:34:14

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:15

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:17

But yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:17

Yeah, so you had to listen to the same thing over and over.

Speaker: 01:34:19

So I guess I was an album guy back then, because I had to be.

Speaker: 01:34:23

So no, I'm not gonna get into vinyl.

Speaker: 01:34:25

No, don't.

Speaker: 01:34:26

Uh- And if you do, you should let me know, 'cause I'll sell you mine.

Speaker: 01:34:30

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:31

No, I don't, I don't wanna.

Speaker: 01:34:32

But I do want good speakers, and I want, uh, you know, I want, I want

Speaker: 01:34:37

something that sounds really good.

Speaker: 01:34:40

'Cause we got this new room.

Speaker: 01:34:42

Yeah, I know.

Speaker: 01:34:42

So, you know, let's, let's do it.

Speaker: 01:34:43

And there's nobody really around, so you can play it loud.

Speaker: 01:34:45

Oh, yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:46

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:47

Definitely no neighbors.

Speaker: 01:34:49

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:49

Well, that'll be exciting.

Speaker: 01:34:50

And then it'll… You can hook it into your s- your, your, your video system too,

Speaker: 01:34:54

and you can have like- Yeah, for movies.

Speaker: 01:34:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:34:56

We're gonna have movie nights.

Speaker: 01:34:57

Yeah?

Speaker: 01:34:58

Invite a bunch of people over, make some popcorn.

Speaker: 01:34:59

What's the first one you're gonna show?

Speaker: 01:35:01

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:35:02

I've got a list of, like, 50.

Speaker: 01:35:04

Uh, one r- recent one that got on the list is Annie Hall.

Speaker: 01:35:08

Oh.

Speaker: 01:35:08

I'd like to see that again.

Speaker: 01:35:10

God, man, I love that movie.

Speaker: 01:35:11

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:35:12

Woody Allen was a master filmmaker.

Speaker: 01:35:13

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:35:14

And Diane Keaton, you know, just, just died, so, um- Yeah … a lot

Speaker: 01:35:19

of it, you know, it's cool because a lot of the films are films I wanna

Speaker: 01:35:23

see again that Anya's never seen.

Speaker: 01:35:26

Oh, right on.

Speaker: 01:35:26

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:35:26

So, 'cause she's- Yeah … 27 years younger than me, so i- you

Speaker: 01:35:31

know, there's that component of it.

Speaker: 01:35:34

Um, you know, the pleasure of introducing her to something-

Speaker: 01:35:37

Mm-hmm … that I know is really good.

Speaker: 01:35:38

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:35:38

And, and then the pleasure of s- watching it again.

Speaker: 01:35:42

I, I taught high school briefly in Spain, and- I don't remember w- what excuse I

Speaker: 01:35:50

had, but I showed the class The Graduate.

Speaker: 01:35:54

Oh my God, I love that movie.

Speaker: 01:35:54

Um, you know, and it was like 20 minutes per class, and then

Speaker: 01:35:58

we'd talk about that 20 minutes.

Speaker: 01:36:00

And, and so we really just like took off a bite and then chewed

Speaker: 01:36:03

it and, and I had seen it probably three or four times before then,

Speaker: 01:36:07

but that was really interesting to show it to these kids and- For sure

Speaker: 01:36:11

you know, talk about y- you know, what it, the commentary on the

Speaker: 01:36:14

culture and the changing sexual mores and, you know, the whole thing

Speaker: 01:36:19

about career, you know, plastics.

Speaker: 01:36:24

Right.

Speaker: 01:36:24

Right.

Speaker: 01:36:24

Plastics.

Speaker: 01:36:24

I did the same thing.

Speaker: 01:36:25

I was… I taught a film class remotely in 2020, um, and I showed them The Graduate.

Speaker: 01:36:31

This is 2020.

Speaker: 01:36:33

And, uh, it was interesting that their, their take on it from, you know, their

Speaker: 01:36:37

upbringing and so forth, was very much focused on that she is a, uh, she is a

Speaker: 01:36:42

like toxic sexual assaulter in a way.

Speaker: 01:36:45

Oh.

Speaker: 01:36:45

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:36:46

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:36:46

Interesting.

Speaker: 01:36:46

And I was like, "Oh, that's interesting," 'cause that's never even a thing-

Speaker: 01:36:49

Right … that kind of crossed my mind.

Speaker: 01:36:50

But, you know, from one angle, uh, I could see that.

Speaker: 01:36:53

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:36:54

Um, yeah.

Speaker: 01:36:56

I just love Dustin Hoffman's performance in that is just chef's kiss.

Speaker: 01:37:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:00

Like that sound he makes.

Speaker: 01:37:03

Hmm.

Speaker: 01:37:03

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:04

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:05

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:05

Uh- I mean, everything about that film is spectacular.

Speaker: 01:37:09

And that he was in the line for unemployment, like he was broke as

Speaker: 01:37:12

broke can be when he got that role.

Speaker: 01:37:13

Um- Right.

Speaker: 01:37:14

It was supposed to go to Robert Redford.

Speaker: 01:37:16

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:37:16

Which it- It was actually written for Robert Redford.

Speaker: 01:37:19

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:19

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:19

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:20

Which would've been a whole different…

Speaker: 01:37:22

and not, not right.

Speaker: 01:37:23

It wouldn't have worked.

Speaker: 01:37:24

Well, that's inter- I, I, I really enjoy thinking about that when I read about, you

Speaker: 01:37:29

know- Who was gonna be- … this role had been offered to- Right … like one of my

Speaker: 01:37:33

favorites is, uh, Silence of the Lambs.

Speaker: 01:37:37

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:37:38

Uh, Anthony Hopkins was like third choice.

Speaker: 01:37:41

Who was, who was?

Speaker: 01:37:42

Jack Nicholson- Oh

Speaker: 01:37:44

was offered that role.

Speaker: 01:37:45

That's interesting.

Speaker: 01:37:45

I think that's too on the nose.

Speaker: 01:37:47

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:48

Particularly after The Shining.

Speaker: 01:37:49

I feel like that's just way too on the nose, 'cause like you could already be.

Speaker: 01:37:52

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:52

Jack Nicholson's already got creepy, but Anthony Hopkins didn't really

Speaker: 01:37:54

have creepy to me before that.

Speaker: 01:37:56

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:56

You know what I mean?

Speaker: 01:37:58

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:37:59

Had he… Was, uh, Legends of the Fall before that?

Speaker: 01:38:03

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:38:04

I've never seen that one.

Speaker: 01:38:04

Oh.

Speaker: 01:38:06

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:06

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:06

Dog Day Afternoon, that's another one you should see.

Speaker: 01:38:08

That's a- Al Pacino … amazing film.

Speaker: 01:38:09

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:10

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:10

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:11

The camera just moves and moves and moves in that movie.

Speaker: 01:38:14

Uh- Who directed that?

Speaker: 01:38:15

Um, Sidney Lumet.

Speaker: 01:38:17

Oh, right.

Speaker: 01:38:17

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:18

He did that, and then Serpico was the next one, two in a row.

Speaker: 01:38:22

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:23

The '70s, man, there's some gr- the '70s was like the best period,

Speaker: 01:38:25

I think, of American filmmaking.

Speaker: 01:38:26

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:27

Um- Yeah … 'cause ugly people started being actors, and they were amazing

Speaker: 01:38:30

actors, so- Yeah … that opened- Elliot Gould really opened it up.

Speaker: 01:38:33

Right, a lot, yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:36

But also there was this, this kind of energy, like, on sets.

Speaker: 01:38:41

You could see the people were like, you know, when they finished filming

Speaker: 01:38:45

for the day they were fucking and getting high and- Right … probably

Speaker: 01:38:48

getting high before they were filming.

Speaker: 01:38:49

Like MASH.

Speaker: 01:38:51

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:38:51

Do you remember that movie?

Speaker: 01:38:52

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Speaker: 01:38:53

Um, yeah, there, there was just this kind of feeling of like there was a

Speaker: 01:38:58

party going on, and they were making a movie while they were partying.

Speaker: 01:39:02

Well, the studio system had kinda died, so like they were kind of

Speaker: 01:39:05

like it was a free-for-all in a way.

Speaker: 01:39:06

Mm. And people were like, like Easy Rider, like that- Yeah

Speaker: 01:39:08

the story of that movie getting made was just getting a bunch of money tossed

Speaker: 01:39:10

and, "Go, make your hippie movie." Yeah.

Speaker: 01:39:12

And, uh, yeah, and they're like literally getting high in the movie.

Speaker: 01:39:17

Speaking of Jack Nicholson.

Speaker: 01:39:18

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:39:19

What a great cameo that was.

Speaker: 01:39:20

"Indians." Is that what he said?

Speaker: 01:39:21

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:39:22

"Wait, wait, wait, wait. Indians."

Speaker: 01:39:26

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:39:26

You ever seen, um- Five Easy Pieces?

Speaker: 01:39:30

A long time ago, yeah.

Speaker: 01:39:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:39:32

That's an amazing film.

Speaker: 01:39:33

Early Jack.

Speaker: 01:39:34

He's still alive, I think.

Speaker: 01:39:36

Yeah, barely.

Speaker: 01:39:37

Doesn't go to the Oscars anymore.

Speaker: 01:39:40

I think his- Or, or does he go to Lakers games?

Speaker: 01:39:42

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:39:42

Was his last thing The Departed?

Speaker: 01:39:44

That was one of the last things I remember him being in- Mm-hmm

Speaker: 01:39:46

was The Departed.

Speaker: 01:39:46

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:39:47

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:39:48

That movie confused me, 'cause I kept getting the actors confused.

Speaker: 01:39:53

Like, who is it?

Speaker: 01:39:54

It's, uh… Like, the two Boston cops.

Speaker: 01:39:58

Yeah, it was what's-his-name and what's-his-name.

Speaker: 01:40:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:40:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:40:00

Those two.

Speaker: 01:40:01

Those two guys, yeah.

Speaker: 01:40:02

Uh, they look very similar, and I kept confusing, like, "Wait, is

Speaker: 01:40:05

this the good one or the bad one?"

Speaker: 01:40:06

And maybe that's the point.

Speaker: 01:40:07

That's kinda the point, yeah.

Speaker: 01:40:08

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:40:09

Uh, but y- I, I found it a very frustrating movie to watch.

Speaker: 01:40:13

I liked it.

Speaker: 01:40:13

I think it's interesting that Scorsese's editor is, uh,

Speaker: 01:40:16

Thelma Schoonmaker, is a woman.

Speaker: 01:40:17

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:40:18

Um, I just think it's interesting that she's a- she's the editor of these

Speaker: 01:40:20

very, a lot of them very masculine- Yeah

Speaker: 01:40:22

um, yeah.

Speaker: 01:40:24

But then they're all w- it used to be all women back in the day.

Speaker: 01:40:26

It was women, they thought it was like sewing.

Speaker: 01:40:29

They thought of ed- of editing as kinda being like a sewing thing, so women were

Speaker: 01:40:32

all the editors back in the old film days.

Speaker: 01:40:33

Huh.

Speaker: 01:40:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:40:35

Uh, that's interesting.

Speaker: 01:40:36

That's interesting.

Speaker: 01:40:36

I didn't know that.

Speaker: 01:40:37

Yeah, isn't that weird?

Speaker: 01:40:39

Yeah, I have a friend who's an editor, a pretty prominent TV editor.

Speaker: 01:40:43

I guess he does film too.

Speaker: 01:40:45

Um, but he did all the Curb Your Enthusiasms.

Speaker: 01:40:48

Oh, no kidding.

Speaker: 01:40:49

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:40:49

Oh, that's fun.

Speaker: 01:40:50

Yeah, he's, uh, Roger Nygard.

Speaker: 01:40:52

He's, he's a funny guy and, and so his, his sense of humor helps

Speaker: 01:40:58

him edit comedy- Yeah, yeah, yeah

Speaker: 01:40:59

'cause he, like, gets the timing.

Speaker: 01:41:01

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:41:01

He understands the, you know, when to let the camera pause a little-

Speaker: 01:41:04

Right … and, you know- Right … linger.

Speaker: 01:41:06

That's all… Yeah.

Speaker: 01:41:07

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:41:07

Yeah, he's, he's a good guy.

Speaker: 01:41:08

Yeah, I love improvised stuff like that.

Speaker: 01:41:10

That's most of the stuff I've made has been, like, largely

Speaker: 01:41:12

improvised, which I really like.

Speaker: 01:41:13

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:41:13

There's a naturalism to it that I feel like you don't get.

Speaker: 01:41:16

So have you seen the new, uh, Spinal Tap?

Speaker: 01:41:18

Have not seen it yet, no.

Speaker: 01:41:19

Looking forward to that.

Speaker: 01:41:21

Yeah, it's got mixed, um, mixed reviews, but I'm, I'm certainly cur- I think

Speaker: 01:41:25

it's only on streaming or something.

Speaker: 01:41:27

It's on, like, Paramount+ or something.

Speaker: 01:41:28

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:41:29

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:41:29

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:41:30

Um, yeah, I'm curious.

Speaker: 01:41:31

It's very short.

Speaker: 01:41:31

It's, like, only 80 minutes long.

Speaker: 01:41:34

I'm just amazed they, they did it.

Speaker: 01:41:36

I know.

Speaker: 01:41:37

I know.

Speaker: 01:41:37

And they're still alive.

Speaker: 01:41:39

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:41:39

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 01:41:40

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:41:41

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:41:42

All right, let's wrap it up.

Speaker: 01:41:43

OnefJef, uh, check out the podcast.

Speaker: 01:41:46

Yeah, onefjef.

Speaker: 01:41:47

OnefJef.

Speaker: 01:41:47

Um, and yeah, onefjef.com.

Speaker: 01:41:49

If you need anybody to edit your videos or anything, you let me know- Yeah

Speaker: 01:41:53

because, you know, I'm, uh, I'm good.

Speaker: 01:41:55

I'm good.

Speaker: 01:41:56

You're a vagabond, uh, currently out of work video editor.

Speaker: 01:42:01

I've been traveling all year.

Speaker: 01:42:02

It's been really great.

Speaker: 01:42:02

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:42:03

Yeah, really enjoying it.

Speaker: 01:42:04

And you're based in Ohio, right?

Speaker: 01:42:05

Yeah, for now.

Speaker: 01:42:06

I'm trying to figure out an exit strategy.

Speaker: 01:42:08

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:42:09

But, um, but yeah, I'm trying to find remote work so I can kind of just do a

Speaker: 01:42:12

digital nomad thing for a year or two.

Speaker: 01:42:14

Um- I mean, is, is editing generally remote?

Speaker: 01:42:17

Um, I mean, it wasn't… I, you know, m- after 2020, like I was with a

Speaker: 01:42:22

Lincoln project, so that was all remote.

Speaker: 01:42:24

But, um, I don't know what percentage of it.

Speaker: 01:42:27

I just know it's a very difficult place to find a job right now.

Speaker: 01:42:30

Um, and, uh, and yeah, but it's, there's no reason that…

Speaker: 01:42:34

I guess there's, you know, you sometimes you would, like a feature

Speaker: 01:42:37

film, you can't do that remotely.

Speaker: 01:42:38

That'd be hard.

Speaker: 01:42:38

But, like, a lot of the stuff I would be doing, like short

Speaker: 01:42:40

form stuff for the internet or whatever- Right … uh, that's, I

Speaker: 01:42:43

think that's easy to do remotely.

Speaker: 01:42:44

Right.

Speaker: 01:42:45

Um, I'm trying to get like more podcasting producing kind of jobs, which I could

Speaker: 01:42:48

do remotely too, because- Right.

Speaker: 01:42:50

Um, so who knows?

Speaker: 01:42:52

But I'm happy that I've taken advantage of the fact that I've not been employed,

Speaker: 01:42:56

because a lot of people would immediately start looking for another job, which-

Speaker: 01:43:00

Yeah … seems to be misguided, right?

Speaker: 01:43:02

Um- Yeah.

Speaker: 01:43:03

No, take advantage of it.

Speaker: 01:43:04

It's, unemployment is a great opportunity.

Speaker: 01:43:07

To reset your brain and try to figure out where you are and who you are.

Speaker: 01:43:10

Yeah, and, and just go places y- you know, you don't go if you're,

Speaker: 01:43:14

you know, have a week of vacation.

Speaker: 01:43:16

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:43:16

You're not gonna fly to Bogota for a week and- Yeah.

Speaker: 01:43:19

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:43:20

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:43:20

So yeah, um, we'll see, you know.

Speaker: 01:43:24

Uh, trying to find a way to, you know, make money on my own terms, but

Speaker: 01:43:27

that's a different thing, difficult thing to do in today's economy.

Speaker: 01:43:30

But, uh, so we'll see.

Speaker: 01:43:33

We'll see.

Speaker: 01:43:35

But- Yeah … I'm grateful that I've been able to have this year, you know.

Speaker: 01:43:39

Hopefully, I can continue it to more years of living an interesting

Speaker: 01:43:43

life as opposed to being in my house all day editing political videos.

Speaker: 01:43:49

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:43:50

Yeah, that doesn't sound like a recipe for mental health.

Speaker: 01:43:54

No.

Speaker: 01:43:55

No.

Speaker: 01:43:56

No, not so much.

Speaker: 01:43:57

Not so much.

Speaker: 01:43:58

All right.

Speaker: 01:43:59

Thank you, onefjef.

Speaker: 01:44:00

I gotta take a piss.

Speaker: 01:44:01

Thanks, Chris Ryan.

Speaker: 01:44:02

Appreciate you.

Speaker: 01:44:02

Thanks for having me on.

Speaker: 01:44:03

Don't mean to be abrupt.

Speaker: 01:44:04

Yeah, no worries.

Speaker: 01:44:05

Thanks for having me on.

Speaker: 01:44:05

Uh, uh, hello to your mother.

Speaker: 01:44:07

Yeah, hello to your mom as well.

Speaker: 01:44:08

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:44:15

And there you go.

Speaker: 01:44:17

There is my conversation with Chris Ryan.

Speaker: 01:44:20

I hope you enjoyed it.

Speaker: 01:44:21

Hi, Mom.

Speaker: 01:44:23

Hi, Chris Ryan's mom.

Speaker: 01:44:25

I hope that wasn't too difficult to listen to.

Speaker: 01:44:28

If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to somebody else that you

Speaker: 01:44:31

know and love or know and hate.

Speaker: 01:44:34

Doesn't matter to me.

Speaker: 01:44:35

Just send it to somebody.

Speaker: 01:44:37

It's how these things spread.

Speaker: 01:44:39

And if you're not subscribed to the podcast, please do go to whatever

Speaker: 01:44:43

platform you're using, but ideally Apple Podcasts, and click that subscribe

Speaker: 01:44:47

button, because that helps the algorithm understand how good this podcast is.

Speaker: 01:44:55

You can follow the podcast on Instagram at onefjefpod.

Speaker: 01:45:00

That's onefjefpod on Instagram.

Speaker: 01:45:03

You can follow it on a lot of other social media platforms as

Speaker: 01:45:06

well if you go to the show notes.

Speaker: 01:45:08

I'm not gonna bore you with all of them, but most of them

Speaker: 01:45:11

involve the phrase onefjefpod.

Speaker: 01:45:15

If you have any questions, comments, concerns, confusion, bewilderment,

Speaker: 01:45:18

anger, joy, elation, positive vibes, you can email me at onefjefpod@gmail.com.

Speaker: 01:45:29

I will respond for sure and possibly read your email on the air.

Speaker: 01:45:34

Once again, if you didn't do it during the introduction, please do go to

Speaker: 01:45:38

patreon.com/onefjef and subscribe.

Speaker: 01:45:42

You'll get all sorts of fun new content.

Speaker: 01:45:45

You'll get updates on new episodes, and you'll get a warm, warm feeling

Speaker: 01:45:49

in your heart this holiday season.

Speaker: 01:45:52

Once again, I'm gonna close this episode with a short poem by the

Speaker: 01:45:55

legendary Rumi, who was born in 1207.

Speaker: 01:46:02

Did they call that 12-aught-7 back in the day or 1207?

Speaker: 01:46:06

Whatever.

Speaker: 01:46:07

It was a long time ago.

Speaker: 01:46:09

"Do you think I know what I'm doing? That for one breath or half breath

Speaker: 01:46:13

I belong to myself? As much as a pen knows what it's writing or the ball

Speaker: 01:46:19

can guess where it's going next."

Speaker: 01:46:24

Take care of yourselves, my friends.

Speaker: 01:46:26

I'll see you next week

Speaker: 01:46:33

Very good, Jefrey