Episode 53

Moving to Columbus Twice, Underground Yoga in Soviet Lithuania and Finding Somatic Therapy with Anastasija Katcyna (Re-Release)

Anastasija grew up in post-Soviet Lithuania, got a green card at 18, and spent years bouncing between Columbus, London, Edinburgh, and Norway before eventually landing back in Ohio and becoming a somatic therapist and yoga teacher. We talk about growing up post-Soviet, the green card bureaucracy, and how a business trip to Columbus turned permanent once the pandemic hit.

(This episode was originally released on 9/23/2025.)

Learn more about Anastasia's practice and sign up for one of her classes at: www.sijasomatics.com and follow her on Instagram @anastasija_katcyna.

Please show some support for the podcast and get access to some extra content by subscribing to the Patreon page: http://www.patreon.com/onefjef

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Email: onefjefpod@gmail.com

You can also call the podcast and leave a voicemail at 1-669-241-5882 and I will probably play it on the air.

Thank you for listening, please do it again, but in post-Soviet Lithuania.

Onefjef is produced, edited & hosted by Jef Taylor.

Transcript
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Hola, mis amigos y amigas.

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It's Jef, your parasocial friend Jef.

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Your charming, interesting, funny, confusing parasocial friend Jef Hello.

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How are you?

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I hope you're thriving as always.

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Am I thriving?

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I think I am thriving.

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I think I am.

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I still really enjoy my new apartment.

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I've had this lingering, like, cold, congestion thing for the last week or

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two, and I am not sure if it's because there's more pollution in the area

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that I live in now or if it's because I just have a cold of some sort.

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I'm hoping that it's the latter, but I kind of have a feeling it's,

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like, a combination of both the pollution and a moderate cold.

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So, you know, send some good vibes my way because it's not that I'm sick.

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I'm just, like, congested and, like, I don't have the energy

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that I did two weeks ago.

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So, so there you go.

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Anyway, enough about me.

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This is the second re-released episode of onefjef, and it, like

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the last one, is a good one.

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Anastasija Katcyna, I hope I pronounced that right.

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She tells me in the episode how to pronounce it, but I

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forgot, so that's my best shot.

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I think it's right.

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Anyway, Anastasija is a fascinating human being, and I met her because

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she was one of my favorite yoga teachers in Columbus, Ohio.

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And it feels appropriate to re-release her episode now, not only because

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it's one of my favorites but also because it's an expat story.

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Anastasija was born in Lithuania, in post-Soviet Lithuania, that is, and

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emigrated to Columbus when she was very young, uh, and made it work.

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But it's a longer story than this, and you can hear all about

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it in the interview that follows.

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So I really enjoyed my interview with Anastasija, and I really enjoyed

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re-listening to it a few days ago, and I think that you will too.

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So without further ado, here's my interview with Anastasija Katcyna

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from September 23rd of 2025.

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I will remember this.

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Oh, it's good to know.

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See?

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I will.

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You know?

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Maybe, like, in 10 years I'm gonna be having, like, many, one else or, you know.

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But, but I will remember this one 'cause this is a new experience.

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Oh, well, I'm glad.

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And this is not type of experience of like, well, you know, I'm not being

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expert- Yeah, no, I- … on something.

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Yeah.

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I'm just being a human with- Yeah … all my flaws and- Yeah … you know, all

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my, all my stuff, just like you are.

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That's what I want the thing to be.

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Yeah.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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This is episode 17 of onefjef.

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17 is a prime number, the sum of the first four primes and the

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only prime between 16 and 18.

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In numerology, 17 reduces to eight, linked with ambition and success, and in Italy

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it's considered unlucky because 17 can be rearranged to vixi, meaning I have lived.

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Have you lived?

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Are you living now?

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If you're listening to this podcast, you are, of course, living in the sense that

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you're existing as a being on this planet.

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But are you really living?

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If the answer is no, perhaps it's time for a change.

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Hello, my friends.

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I hope you're thriving.

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Since I got back from my road trip, I've been a bit overwhelmed I feel

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like I'm at a turning point of some sort in my life, which has opened

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the door to lots of possibilities and decisions and so forth, which is

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exciting, but it's also stressful.

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I'm no stranger to making drastic changes in my life.

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But at 51, the idea of a drastic change feels a bit more daunting than it did

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when I was, like, 29 or 32 or even 44.

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We all get stuck in our ways as we get older, and I think this more than anything

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is why I need to make a big change.

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I lived in Columbus for about seven years, which is quite longer than I

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imagined I would, although I'm not sure how long I imagined I would.

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And since I got laid off earlier this year, I've had this nagging

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feeling that it's somehow time to go.

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I think that's why I've been traveling so much this year.

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And this feeling was, was reinforced in many ways during my road trip.

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And since I've been back, there have been several signs which indicate

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to me that the universe is, like, agreeing with this nagging feeling.

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And when the universe is giving you signs, I feel like it's best to

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heed them, particularly when one of the signs is a crazy landlord who

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is growing increasingly unhinged.

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But I digress.

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As always, thank you to my new and continuing Patreon subscribers.

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You are all wonderful humans.

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I did put up a bonus episode just for my Patreon subscribers.

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I put that up this morning, and if you'd like to hear that and also

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see the pictures from my road trip and also help support the podcast,

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please do go to patreon.com/onefjef.

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For as little as $5 a month, you can help support the show and

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get a bunch of extra content.

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Perhaps not a bunch of, but you'll get some extra content.

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I don't know how you quantify a bunch.

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Everybody defines it differently, I imagine.

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But you will get extra content that nobody else gets to hear

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except for you, you special humans.

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Patreon.com/onefjef.

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Today's guest is Anastasija Katsina Is a somatic therapist, educator, and

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yoga teacher whose work integrates somatic experiencing, breathwork,

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movement, and expressive art.

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She holds a master's in public health and has training in somatic movement,

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dance and movement therapy, Katona yoga, and trauma-informed modalities.

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Her focus is on helping people feel safe in their bodies, attune to

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nervous system cues, and heal through embodiment rather than only through talk.

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I met Stasia in a yoga class about a year ago.

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I was initially struck by her unique accent, which seemed somewhat out

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of place in Columbus, let alone in a yoga studio in Columbus.

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But she quickly turned into one of my favorite yoga teachers, both

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in this city or any city, really.

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Her classes are unique and challenging and fun in a way

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that's kind of hard to describe.

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If you get a chance, I highly recommend taking one of her classes.

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She also has a fascinating life story, which you'll hear in this episode.

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She grew up in post-Soviet Lithuania, and then she somehow

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ended up here in Columbus, Ohio.

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It's a story of looking for yourself in different places and different

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people, and then eventually finding yourself in yourself.

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It's a story that I very much relate to, and I think we can

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all relate to it in some way.

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I really enjoyed this conversation with Stacia, and I hope you will too.

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Thank you for listening.

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Thank you for being here.

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Here's Anastasija Katsena.

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I hope I pronounced that right.

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Apologies if not

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I'll be honest, I have, like, avoided, like, when I, when I come into your

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yoga class, I kind of avoid saying your name because I don't wanna butcher it.

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Mm. So I'm just kinda like, "Hey." Hey.

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Exactly.

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So can you tell me how you actually say your name?

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Because I- So I'm gonna give you a few versions.

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Oh, God.

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Why are you doing that?

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I only want- Give me, just give me the best one.

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Well, I can give you the best one, uh, between my friends and my family- Okay

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… which is a short version, and it's Nastya.

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Nastya, that's easy.

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All right.

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Yeah, that's it.

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What are the other- We're done.

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I, now I need to hear the other one.

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The other one is Anastasiia.

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Anastasiia.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay.

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So think about as, like, nice to see you.

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Right.

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Anastasiia.

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Oh, that's good.

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It rhymes well.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I would've, I would've done, like, Anastasia, and you

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probably get that all the time.

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Yeah, and that too.

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Yeah.

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It's, it's, uh, more of a, like, South America- Right … uh,

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pronunciation, Anastasia.

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Anastasia.

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And what's your last name?

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How do you pronounce that?

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Kacena.

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Kacena.

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And where are you from?

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Lithuania.

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Lithuania?

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Mm-hmm.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, let me tell you how you got on my radar.

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Um- I was doing a, like a f- a free one-month thing at GO last

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year Uh-huh … at Go Yoga.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, you know, like s- some of the teachers were okay, but I was going

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like every single day at the time.

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And then one day you were, like, subbing for somebody, and I was like, "Oh, there's

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an interesting teacher actually teaching here I'd never…" And then I was at one

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of the… I guess it was a couple months after that- Mm-hmm … 'cause I had come

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to a bunch of your classes there, and then it was a couple months after that,

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we were at a, the sound bath thing.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I walked in, and you pointed at me and you're like, "I know

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you." Mm. And I was like, "Oh, yeah, yeah." Yeah, that's right.

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And, and then we- It was a home, home sound bath.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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And then we figured out that Emily, uh, is a mutual connection, so weird, small town.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Columbus is very small.

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It is.

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The longer I'm here, the more I, uh, yeah, realize that.

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Uh-huh.

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For better or for worse, I suppose.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I, I still don't know if it's better or for worse.

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Yeah.

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I don't, I don't either.

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I think that we share similar feelings about where we live right now.

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Are you from Columbus?

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No.

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I grew up in Cleveland.

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Okay.

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Um, and then kinda lived around the world.

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Lived in Korea for a little bit, lived in London for a bit.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, and then went, lived in Savannah, Georgia.

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Mm. Went to school down there, and then was in New York for 10 years.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then I moved here about six years ago for a job-

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Mm … that I lost during COVID.

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Mm-hmm.

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So now I'm trying to figure out what I wanna do next.

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Okay.

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I'm presently unemployed.

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This is why I have time to do a podcast.

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This is how it all starts.

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Yeah.

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Right, right, right.

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I mean, I'm already shopping for houses 'cause this is a money-maker.

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This is … I can feel the money rolling in.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, how did you end up getting from Lithuania to Columbus, Ohio, where we are?

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Um, so this is my second time here, so I kind of moved to Columbus twice.

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Wow.

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So it's definitely some karmic… for sure.

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Something's, something's drawing you here.

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Why?

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Right.

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Why?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, first time I came, um, gosh, I was 18, and, uh, I got a green card.

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Okay.

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So my mom got a green card.

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I got a green card because I was under 21.

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Okay.

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And then we just… At that time, it's like 2002 I mean, like, I think

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flip phones are still the, you know, like- Yeah … we don't have a social

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media- Right, right … yet, right?

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So everything is slower- Mm-hmm … and, uh, you know, getting documents

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and, you know, there's a lot of…

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There's, uh, many steps in order to get even the green card.

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There's probably more now.

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Probably, yes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Or opposite, they just simplified everything 'cause, yeah.

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Right.

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And, um, yeah, so and we just had w- w- I didn't, I literally didn't even have

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a, you know, clue where we're going, so we were supposed to go to Florida.

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But then the company that we found, uh, they said there was no space

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for us to stay and to work because you need somebody provide you with

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work- Uh-huh … and a place to stay.

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So whenever you enter the country, you need an address, but if

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you don't have anyone, right?

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So there you go.

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So Columbus, Ohio.

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Did you leave Lithuania for…

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Was there a reason that you left?

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Oh, no.

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No.

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I mean, it was just green card.

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Just green card.

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So you're kind of looking for- Okay … opportunities.

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I'm just graduated from high school, and I mean, I had nothing

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to lose, so I just end up going.

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Well, my mom actually told us, "Go there." How was it growing up in Lithuania?

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Fun.

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Okay.

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Now that I look back- Right … absolutely.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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Sure It was a lot of fun.

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It was hard for m- m- my parents- Right … for our parents.

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I didn't know any better.

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How was it, how was it hard?

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Well, you know, what I remember, it's Soviet and then post-Soviet times.

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Right.

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And that's usually when, you know, that's when…

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I didn't really see my parents much.

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Oh, okay.

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So there was a time when, uh, Soviet Union collapsed, and everyone, everyone had

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to just go and just make money, hustle.

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Right, right, right.

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Hustle, basically.

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You're either hustling or you're hustling.

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There's no other way.

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And your parents figured out how to hustle?

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Yeah.

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My mom, my mom figured out quite quickly.

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She was- Yeah, I was in Russia, like, two years after the, the Soviet

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Union collapsed, and it was just corruption, and mafia kind of was-

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Yeah … the rule of the day at the time.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It was a lot of that, uh, kind of, um, you're basically, uh, lawless kind

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of experience because the government, you know, there is transition- Right

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transmutation- Right … you know, transformation.

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Right.

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Right?

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So people would just take advantage of weak people.

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Like they do.

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Always.

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Always.

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Always.

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Gosh, you traveled a lot.

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Korea, London, Russia.

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Yeah.

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Iceland, I just learned.

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Well, that was just, like, that wasn't living.

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That was just visiting.

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But yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I have a… I've been trying to get… Like, I'm unemployed, so I said no

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I'm trying to get a, a remote job so I can kind of do the n- digital

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nomad thing because- Mm-hmm … I'm 51, I'm unattached, I have no kids.

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What am I doing here?

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What am I doing?

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Y- yeah.

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You know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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Like- I ask myself the same question.

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But you, but you have a partner, so that's something, right?

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I mean, you know.

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Yeah, yeah.

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You know, it's like every single situation has its pluses and minuses.

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It sure does.

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It sure does.

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It's, you always compromise.

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Yeah.

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If it's not with your internal voice, then with the- Yeah

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… people around you, you know?

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I always feel like I'm kind of in- A hurry Mm-hmm

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like, my kind of MO is, like, I'm, I'm, I'm… And it's a thing I always have

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worked on and am working on, but, like, patience, 'cause I feel like we've only

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got this one, this one life, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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And I don't feel… And I feel like I gotta, I gotta do the stuff, right?

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I gotta live the thing.

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Um, and I feel like that is why I get mad at people while I'm driving.

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'Cause you're interfering with my life.

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You're, you're taking my time away.

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This is your hypothesis.

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This is how I can justify it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I'll go… Yeah, so doing therapy on Monday.

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Um- Do you think it's related for, um, like, a lot with the age

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and just, you know, transitioning into the other half of century?

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I think I've already… I mean, believe me, poss- I- I've always been like

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this, so I think it's not really that.

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I do think that, um, at a certain point, I don't know, it was probably, I don't

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know, five years ago- Mm … after I'd moved here, I always kind of was

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feeling like I was living, and maybe you can relate, maybe you can't, but

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I always felt like I was living for, like, some future moment- Mm-hmm

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you know, that was coming.

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Mm-hmm.

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And that this wasn't life- Mm-hmm … you know?

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And one day, I just kind of snapped in me, and I was like, "Oh, no, this

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is, this is it. This is the thing that we're all…" Mm. You know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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It seems, like, simple, but it, it struck me as being really profound- Yeah … and,

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like, meaningful in a weird, bizarre way.

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So.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, yeah.

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Yeah, I hear you, and this is just kind of, you know the concepts.

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There, there's so many concepts, but then you need to have that felt sense- Right

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… embodied present moment to- Right … be like, okay, there's, th- this is it.

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There's no past.

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There's no future.

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And this is it- Yeah … right here, right now.

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Yeah.

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I wanted to make T-shirts that said This Is It for a while.

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Mm-hmm.

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But I asked a few people if they'd like that, and they were like, "We'd think

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of the Michael Jackson album." Oh.

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'Cause he had that album.

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Okay.

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And so I nixed that idea.

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Yeah.

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I d- I made one for myself though, and people seemed to

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like it, but then it got a stain.

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Good story.

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I like This Is It with a stain or a coffee stain.

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I don't know what the stain was.

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Blood stain would be even better.

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Um, so, uh, so tr- uh, uh, culture shock coming from

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Lithuania to the United States?

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Did you speak the language at the time, or?

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Mm.

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By the way, who is listening, we're drinking, uh, Topo Chico.

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Oh, yes, this podcast sponsored by Topo Chico.

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Topo Chico.

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We are open for sponsorship.

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Thank you very much, by the way.

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Uh, always appreciate that.

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Yeah.

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Uh, cultural shock.

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You know when, when you're 18, you're like you just won the world, you know?

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Mm-hmm.

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You're like, "Ah."

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Mm-hmm You know?

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Was it scary?

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Yeah, of course.

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Was it uncomfortable?

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Absolutely.

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But that's when you do crazy stuff- Sure … when you're young- Yeah

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… because you're just, just going to the next thing, and to the next thing.

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It seems like it could be kind of an amazing time to move to a

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new country when you're just 18, because it's like almost- Yeah

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yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's like, you know, you can, you can explore and do whatever.

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And I'm so happy, so happy I did it when social media was not

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around- Right … smartphones were n- you know, not there yet.

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Right, right.

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So I really got a chance to experience, uh, States and, uh, here

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Columbus, Ohio from the street level.

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Right.

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And what were your initial, if you can remember, your initial, like,

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thoughts about Columbus, Ohio?

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But it was the first place you were in the States, right?

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Yeah.

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So it's- Yeah … yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So at that point, you know, and again, y- you only-

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You only create an opinion when you s- when you have

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something compare with Right.

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Right.

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So you're only comparing it to Lithuania.

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So I'm like, oh, just comparing to Lithuania when things are just picking up.

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Think about 2002, 1990, 1992, this is when it, like, all started collapsing, so we

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really had only, what, 10 years to- Right … bounce, you know, change currency.

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It's, it's… Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, um, what I thought about it, was it cultural shock?

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Probably was.

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Right.

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I don't remember that, you know.

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How was it, to be honest?

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And did you… You were 18, so what did you do?

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Were you gonna school or did you get a job or?

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Oh my gosh.

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So with a green card, there is, like, a loop in the system.

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Uh-huh.

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You cannot get a job if you don't have a Social Security, but also you

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need to wait for Social Security.

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So you have a green card but you don't have Social Security, and you

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cannot really, like, go and just, you know, get your employment.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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And back then, you didn't get your Social Security number in,

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like, what, two, three months.

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It takes forever.

Speaker:

Right.

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So, uh, yeah, illegal job in a hotel.

Speaker:

Oh, illegal job in a hotel?

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

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All right.

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Yeah.

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Great.

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For three months.

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Um, which hotel was it, if you don't mind?

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I don't know if it's- Uh- … uh, there anymore.

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Uh, Hyatt on- Yeah … Capitol Square.

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Oh, yeah, I think it was Hyatt.

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I think that's actually where I- It was there … they put me up when I came

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in for the job interview for the job that I moved here for, weirdly enough.

Speaker:

Oh, okay.

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Maybe it was the Hilton.

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Doesn't matter.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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But, but then it was like, oh, yeah.

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Right.

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So w- we live in the, uh, we were staying in the Whitehall.

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Okay.

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I- And then the bus.

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So you take bus to the Broad Street, and you just go into this big building.

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Wow.

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You're a little tiny person.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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So it was fun.

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But you were- It was fun … and you knew the language already.

Speaker:

No.

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No, you didn't.

Speaker:

Wow.

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So I learned it, uh, German in, uh, school.

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Okay.

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And then, uh, supposed to, the plan was to study in, uh, un- um, German university.

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Okay.

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And then green card happened, so I just had to r- r- like,

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just, just learn English.

Speaker:

Wow.

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And how- Yeah, so we did the, um, uh, I, I took some, um, classes,

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some private lessons with one of the teachers and then… But you only

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learn the language when you speak the language, when you- Sure … so that.

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Yeah.

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I'm trying to learn Spanish, but it's just not… When I was in Mexico, I

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realized I should know more Spanish.

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But- If you- Yeah … don't practice, it's, you know.

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Right.

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Right.

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It's a memory.

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Right.

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Right.

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Um, so was it, how long, how long do you think it took you to get from zero

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to- To what we are speaking, right?

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Sure.

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Yeah, yeah.

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To basically this, yeah.

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And seems like, yeah, it's still, uh Being able to teach yoga and stuff, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, h- who knows, you know?

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Right.

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'Cause I moved here, stayed here, but then I left nine years after that.

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Okay.

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Like, I had a 10-year gap where I mainly s- you know, talk in,

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uh, uh, Russian and Lithuanian.

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Right.

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So I was just kind of forgetting and coming back to it, but after nine years

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of being here, you just, you just, you just kind of stay with the language.

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I will tell you though, um, after a while I found out that I can, um,

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apply for, um, financial support, uh, studying in college and university.

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Mm. And that's when I went to Columbus State Community College.

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Okay.

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ESL.

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And then eventually, I think when I already, uh, got to OSU-

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Okay … that's when I'm, "Oh, w- okay, I, I think I'm getting it."

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Right.

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I can write papers- Right … without ChatGPT and, uh, you know.

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So, yeah.

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It is helpful.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So you lived in Columbus for nine years, and you… Where did you… Where, where

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were you doing in those nine years?

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When did the… Well, we can get to when… Let me know when the yoga starts,

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but- Yeah … like, the nine years in, in Columbus, you're how old at this point?

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Ni- 18 to, what, like, 20-whatever, 7.

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25 25, I think.

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25, yeah.

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Um, yeah, so basically, uh, quite, very fast found out I can study.

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So for me it was, "Okay, I'm staying." My mom, we, we came together.

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Okay.

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We stayed for, um, six months.

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She decided to come back because at the time, uh, she has, had a boyfriend.

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Okay.

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But they were not married.

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So she's like, "I'm going home." Okay.

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And I'm like, "Okay, I'm staying 'cause I have this chance to, you

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know, try something." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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"So I'll stay." So I went to Columbus, the college.

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Right.

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Stay there, and then realize I can go to OSU.

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So basically that whole time it kept me, you know, going.

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So I think, yeah.

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And it took me a while to graduate, to be honest.

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Mm-hmm.

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Just because I was working several jobs- Yeah, mm-hmm … and kind

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of supporting myself at that time.

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Grinding.

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So yeah.

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And so I would just take classes, not take classes, you know?

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Yeah, go back home, visit my family.

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And what were you like at this point in your life?

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Like- Uh, partying Mm-hmm.

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Mm-hmm Gotta do it Yeah.

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Yeah Yeah.

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We were partying hard Yeah.

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Okay And that was not, like, associated with, um, always your, um, kind of

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group of people Right There are a few friends that- Right … kind of, you

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know, stayed together, but majority it was my Russian-speaking community Okay.

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Is there a big Russian-speaking community in- I think now it

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is and grown that time, yeah.

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But it also was this everybody eventually knows.

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Everyone knows everyone Right, especially if you're in such a

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small- Yeah, yeah, yeah … town.

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Yeah Yeah, exactly.

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So Big Yeah Big enough-ish Right Yeah Right Yeah, yeah So then why

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did you decide to leave Columbus?

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Why on earth would you ever wanna leave Columbus, Ohio?

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Yeah, right.

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I know.

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I mean… I mean, I knew it's gonna happen.

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Like, I rem- I… There's, you know, certain, certain… Just like with

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your felt sense of present moment.

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Right Certain moments you're just, "This is it." Time to go.

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I knew.

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I was driving the highway one day, and it was the summertime, and

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there's just concrete everywhere.

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And I looked around like, "I, I, I cannot be here" Yeah "I just can't" Yeah So

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I was just waiting until I graduate.

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And nothing was really keeping me… I didn't have relationships.

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Right And then I just, "Okay, I can just go reconnect with my family and decide

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what I'm going to do next." Right.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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So you went back to Lithuania?

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Sold all my little, very little belongings.

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Oh, I love it.

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Okay, yeah.

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Got a good deal for the car, and yeah.

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That's good.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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That's it.

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So then you're back in Lithuania and… Oh, back in Lithuania

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and, oh, God, that was messy.

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Oh, was it?

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Yeah.

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In what way?

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I was depressed.

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Mm. You missed Columbus.

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Yes, exactly.

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I missed Columbus.

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That happens to everybody apparently- Oh, yeah … when you bucket.

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Yeah.

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You know, and now I'm here.

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Right.

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Right.

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Now you're back.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Um, y- it… Yeah, you just, you graduate, you don't know what to do.

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Well, you're living with your mom again, too, which is hard.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, at that age.

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Um, I went back.

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Well, I ha- I have really good relationships with my mom.

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That's good.

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And, um, I end up traveling and coming back and forth.

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And I went back, actually, to the States.

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Okay.

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The, uh, um, stayed for, like, six months, and I figured I just

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need to continue the education.

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So I end up, um, yeah, end up flying to Scotland, Edinburgh, and

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studying in Edinburgh University.

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Oh, right on.

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That's a pretty town.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Giant fucking castle right in the middle of town.

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Yeah.

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Nobody can complain about that, right?

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No.

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Yeah.

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Not like Columbus at all.

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Yeah.

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That's what we need, is a castle in the middle of town.

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We

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need to turn it down a little bit in Columbus.

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I don't know what we need to turn down, though, but maybe we could turn down

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Buckeye football just a little bit.

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Cult.

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Um- … we can do… This, uh, this episode also sponsored by Columbus, Ohio.

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The lovely city of Columbus, Ohio.

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Um… To be honest, you know, like, what I, I, I w- I found

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myself, like, like, being bitter.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then, you know, again, it hit me another way, uh, when, um, my

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partner and I were talking and I was, you know… Can we curse here?

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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I was bitching about, you know, w- w- where I wanna go, what I wanna do,

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and how I miss home, and he's like, "Well, you realize this is my home.

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This is where I was born.

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This is my land." Right.

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Whether it's pretty, not pretty, this and this.

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And I'm like, "Ah." Of course, selfish of me, 'cause then I took

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him to Lithuania to where I grew up.

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Right.

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And he's like, "This is not pretty at all," because it's a post-Soviet-

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Oh, right … uh, area of, you know, three or four factories

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that don't even function anymore.

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Right, right.

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And it's just, like, very depressing, um, five stories Soviet buildings.

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You know- Huh … nothing pretty about that.

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Right.

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But it's my land.

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Sure.

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And it's pretty- Right … for me.

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Yeah, I kinda wanna know what it looks like now.

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S- yeah, so.

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Yeah.

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So it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, that's what it is.

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Right.

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So for me, it's kind of like I chose to be here, and there's a moment when

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I will choose to go somewhere else.

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Yeah.

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I just feel like I get, I think I get stir-crazy.

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I mean, I was in New York for 10 years, and that was the longest I think I've

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ever been in one place- Mm-hmm … for, except for when, like, childhood,

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you know, when I was growing up.

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And I just, you know, I don't know how long I expected to be here, but

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it's been s- like six and a half years now, and I'm just starting to feel,

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I don't know, like I've gotten all that I can get from here or something.

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Mm-hmm.

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But then again, everywhere you go, there you are.

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You know?

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If there's one thing I've learned- Yeah … you know, wherever you go,

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you're still there with your head.

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Yeah.

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So.

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Yeah.

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So it goes.

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So it goes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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There… And, and I feel bad 'cause we've been not giving Columbus good,

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good… There's very wonderful- Release

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there's wonderful people here.

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Very, very friendly.

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Very low cost of living.

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Uh- There's a lot of pluses.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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There's some.

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Just wish there was a little more terrain, you know?

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Yeah.

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Like, just a little bit.

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Little bit, you know.

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A mountain or two.

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Um, so how did the… At that point in this… Oh, I gotta go back.

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W- your dad not in the picture?

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What was the, what's the story?

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Oh, yeah.

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That's right.

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I, mm, didn't catch that.

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Uh, well, you know, my parents divorced early, and, um- How

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old were you when that happened?

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What's that?

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How old were you when they…?

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Um- It started around when I was probably like nine, eight- Okay … 10.

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So- So old enough to remember?

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Yeah, old enough to remember.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And it was just, you know, we would keep in touch.

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Right.

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But not, not like any- Right, right, right … good relationship, so to say.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Right, right.

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Yeah.

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So you're back in Lithuania, and you are depressed because

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you're back in Lithuania.

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Maybe you're feeling purposeless.

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Who knows what it is?

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Purposeless.

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You know, what do you do?

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Right.

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Then I go to Scotland, you know, studied there.

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Oh, that's right, Scotland.

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There is a moment in Scotland, again, another m- that moment when you're like,

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"Do I turn left or do I turn right?" Yep And again, it turned the wrong direction.

Speaker:

Well, you know.

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I had to, you know, make a, like, final decision to start studying, and

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everything in my body was saying, "No." And I wish… You know, I remember I had

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a conversation on the phone with my mom.

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Right.

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And I told her, just a few weeks ago when we were talking, like,

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"I wish you would just tell me, 'Don't do it. Just don't do it.'"

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Why do you think you shouldn't have done it?

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'Cause I was just… I, I was lost.

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Yeah, you were.

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Right.

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I know, and it just… When you're lost and you're in kind of this

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kind of survival mode, you like, you just grab onto anything.

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Right.

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Anything that will anchor you down and anything that give you some kind

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of sense of, "All right, I'm here."

Speaker:

Right.

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"I know what to do." Right.

Speaker:

Which I'm obviously don't know what I'm doing.

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This is, this is who I am right now.

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This is who I am right now.

Speaker:

Right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And you know, there's a bunch of concepts of idea if I'm gonna

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get my master's, yadi-ya, ya.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

You know, all of these things, so.

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What'd you study?

Speaker:

Public health.

Speaker:

Oh, okay.

Speaker:

Ugh.

Speaker:

Oh oh, no?

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Okay.

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

No, no, no.

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I just didn't enjoy it.

Speaker:

I don't- Yeah … really enjoy academics after all.

Speaker:

I lo- I love studying, researching, you know, um, but academics, it's, it's

Speaker:

just a different- It is … animal.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

You know?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

You have to really have, like, a very, like, a very specific mindset in order

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to stay there and be there and- Yeah

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and I'm really bad at tests.

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Bad.

Speaker:

Bad.

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So bad.

Speaker:

Um, yeah, I can r- when I was in Korea, I lived in Korea for, like, two

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years teaching English, and I was kind of aimless, and I just went there.

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And, uh, I knew I had to leave 'cause I… people stayed there too long 'cause

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it was just a good life and you're having fun with all these expats and stuff.

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And, uh, and I was like, "Well, I'm either gonna go…" At the time, I was

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really interested in Middle Eastern studies, and it was, like, Middle

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Eastern studies or I'd always been documenting things my whole life.

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I was really into film.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I kinda taught myself how to edit when I was there, so I was like, "Well,

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film school or Middle Eastern studies?"

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So I applied to both.

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Mm-hmm.

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And ended up going to film school and going into a lot of debt,

Speaker:

but that's a whole 'nother story.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Uh, but, like, I'm… That was the right direction for me because, like, I look

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back and I'm like, "I could never have done Middle Eastern studies." Yeah.

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Jesus.

Speaker:

Like, finishing all those…

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You have to read all these books, all these papers.

Speaker:

I- dude.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And film school was great because thir- it's not about tests or anything,

Speaker:

it's just about doing creative stuff, and it was- Yeah … yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Remind me, though, uh, did you actually, after graduating, did that… was

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your main occupation around, uh, film?

Speaker:

Yeah, no, I'm mostly an e- like, a video editor.

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That was my last… my jobs for, you know.

Speaker:

I directed some stuff.

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I had, like, sever- I made some short films y- like, when I was in New York.

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Mm-hmm.

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And they, they did well.

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Um, uh, they were short films.

Speaker:

They did, they did well.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

But they're… Like, it's very hard to make films.

Speaker:

You need a lot of people and a lot of money.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, and, uh, yeah, and the last thing I made was really good but didn't do very

Speaker:

well for v- variety of reasons, and it was just like… I think I had a realization,

Speaker:

not to get too down the rabbit hole, but, like- And it's some part of this

Speaker:

podcast really is like, um, I'm- this last project I made, it was a web series.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

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And, you know, it was really… it was fun to make, but again, we

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were thinking about the future.

Speaker:

What's this gonna, who's gonna, who's gonna see this, right?

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Is this gonna get us a door open and whatever, you know?

Speaker:

And, uh, and it didn't, and it was surprising 'cause

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everybody seemed to love it.

Speaker:

And then I think I had a realization where it's like the, the, the,

Speaker:

the, the joy has to come from the doing of the thing itself- Mm-hmm

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not from the expected or hoping, hoped outcome, right?

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Yeah.

Speaker:

It has to come from the experience of doing the actual thing.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Uh, which brings me to the podcast, which is like, you know, if people

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listen in, they don't listen again, Topo Chico, we will take your sponsorship.

Speaker:

But, like, for me, it's just, like, almost an excuse just to,

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just to talk to people- Mm-hmm

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and then to make something creative out of it.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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Um, and I'm enjoying it for the most part.

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Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

You know?

Speaker:

Anyway, um- But can I say something?

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Yeah.

Speaker:

Have you seen Brutalist?

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I did.

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Okay.

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Do you remember the, her speech when she says it's not about the journey,

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it's actually about the destination?

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When she did the switch, yeah.

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'Cause it's also about the context, you know?

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Right.

Speaker:

For sure.

Speaker:

That was- I mean, the context that she was in and- For sure … not why

Speaker:

it was about the destination, yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah, that was an interesting film.

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So you finished the public health.

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Uh-huh.

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And then?

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And then I get even more depressed.

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Oh, life.

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Oh, life.

Speaker:

Life, life, life.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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And, uh, and then I get, uh, go back home to Lithuania, like, okay,

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summertime, I can stay, hang out.

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It's fun.

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Yeah.

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And then I'm just gonna go back to the States and continue- Mm-hmm … something.

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And then I meet a boy.

Speaker:

Mm. Oh, here we go.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's what happens.

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Yeah.

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And I end up staying.

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In Scotland.

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In Lithuania.

Speaker:

Lithuania.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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All right.

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Yeah.

Speaker:

So, yeah, into six years- Wow … of relationships, yeah.

Speaker:

Wow.

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But six years is a long time, like, that's good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Yeah, so, and then- Break up And how's- He's been- … the depression, like,

Speaker:

uh, I'm feeling like at some point we're getting to a place where we realize that

Speaker:

the depression is coming from inside and perhaps not in changing things around

Speaker:

you, but in, you know, changing- Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Mm-hmm.

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Absolutely.

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Right.

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But the, the six years with the boyfriend were good?

Speaker:

Mm. Oh, no, no.

Speaker:

Oh, okay.

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All right.

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I like it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

I, um, I don't wanna go into details.

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No, all right.

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Let's, let's keep the- It's all right.

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Right.

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That would be another theme for the podcast.

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Right.

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Right, right.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Different ep- Mm-hmm … episode.

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Next second episode.

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I've learned a lot.

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It was very interesting, uh, experience for me, uh, for,

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yeah, for those relationships.

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Open up a lot of doors for esoteric world.

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They, they make you see yourself as well.

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Like, I mean, I'm not sure… What do you mean by that, I guess is my question.

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Oh, just the, the person that I was dating.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, just he opened a lot of doors of, of, of something I never considered.

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Now you have to tell me what this… Tell me one of the doors.

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Like tantra, for instance.

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Oh, okay.

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So he kinda opened your door- Yeah … the door to the, to the

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yoga kind of world then, uh- Uh, yeah

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okay … like something that is, you know, beyond a everyday life and just linearity

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of- Right … past, present, future.

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Right.

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Right.

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Different type of conversation.

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Right.

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Different way of spending time.

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Yeah.

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Different- It's funny how meeting just, like meeting a person kind of changes your

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life in ways that you don't expect because you're introduced to this whole other way

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of thinking that you didn't even- Yeah.

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Yeah … right, wasn't even on your radar.

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Uh-huh.

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Right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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So then through him or, uh… Keep going.

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You're, you, you, six years with the situation- 'Cause you really wanna

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learn about yoga, it seems like to me.

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No, I mean, that's how I know you.

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I'm just curious to know, I, I, I think I'm just curious about, like it's,

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it's interesting to meet people who'd come from other places in the city.

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You know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And, and, and I enjoy the experience of being like a, um, a traveler

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because I like feeling like a stranger.

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Like- Mm … I don't know what it is about it, but feeling like a

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foreigner in a foreign country.

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Yeah.

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I really enjoy that experience.

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Um, so to me it's interesting too, 'cause Columbus is a very homogenous- Yeah

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yeah, city.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so to come across a yoga teacher that was not from here was surprising to me.

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Um- Yeah.

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And actually like even teaching here, and I don't even know

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many foreign, foreigners- Right.

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No … in, in yoga studios.

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No.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's super, super white.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, well, relationships wa- k- I kinda went back and forth.

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I, I, I lived in, uh, London probably all together for maybe a year and a half- Okay

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… or two years, something like that.

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Um, and then, um, yeah, and then, uh, my family and I, we

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opened a vegetarian bistro.

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Oh, nice.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it was, it was-

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It was, it was a fun experience, but, you know, when you're small business,

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you have to really, like, you have to have a plan what you're going to do next.

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Right.

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Right.

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And then if you're, you know, you're not doing the next

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thing, it's just gonna kill you.

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Yeah.

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Was this in Lithuania?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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And then, uh, eventually I just, I, I just got exhausted.

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Mm-hmm.

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So it, it was kind of a, uh, the, the moment of getting exhausted from

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relation, in the relationships- Uh-huh

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and also, um, work.

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And I had a very interesting encounter.

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Um, let's call this person a healer.

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Okay.

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And they basically told me that, "Whatever you're doing, you, you gotta

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stop 'cause you're, you know, you're gonna have consequences." And I knew

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it because it was a lot of stress.

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Okay.

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Um, and a lot of just keep going, keep going, keep going.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And you're not sure where are we going, and you're like, "I don't

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think I'm enjoying this moment.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's not bringing me joy.

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I'd rather go to just destination." So that was the moment, and that

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happened to me several times in life when I hit the point when we're done.

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Yeah.

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I packed my bags and I just went for three months to Norway so I can

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decide what I'm going to do next.

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All right.

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And you- And that was a new chapter in my life.

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How did you stumble upon the guy who gave you the, gave you the advice?

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Or gave you, told you the- Through my, uh, boyfriend at the time.

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Okay.

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All right.

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That checks out.

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'Cause he was taking care of his mom, and I just went together, end up,

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you know, getting a session as well.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So it was a very health re- related, and I knew that.

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Right.

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It just, just a matter of time when something's gonna happen.

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It's ironic that you were working in… You, oh, you were running a

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vegetarian restaurant at the time when your… It was health-related.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Think about the yoga studios, though.

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I hear it all the time.

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Like what?

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You know, studios, um, the, the, the business aspect of it and how

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people are- Yeah … overworked and- Yeah … gotta really know

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how to handle your stuff, you know?

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So the, the, the paradox and- Uh-huh.

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Mm-hmm … yeah.

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'Cause it's gotta be, it's gotta be a money-making venture, but

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also you're trying to be- A bench.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And then you're… Yeah, so there's… Yeah.

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How do you walk that line?

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Mm. Right.

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Mm. And it does seem like the teacher training thing, it just seems like

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it's so expensive and, like… I mean, I was gonna do it at one point-

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Mm-hmm … but it was like $3,000.

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And, like, I don't wanna be a yoga teacher, I just wanna go through the

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philosophy and all that kind of thing.

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Mm-hmm.

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I just wanted to… But it was, it was way too much money for my

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kind of, uh, um, for my… Yeah.

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It was too much for me at the time.

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Yeah.

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Um, and I think I'm glad I didn't do it, frankly.

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But the studio's gotta make money, so- Yeah … you know, you gotta do it.

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Well, you know, everyone's doing for their own reason.

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Mm-hmm.

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Different reasons.

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That's the first thing.

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And I, I will con- I will disagree.

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I think 3,000 for States, it's normal money.

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No, I'm not saying it was crazy expensive for, like, a- Yeah

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… teacher, teacher training at all.

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No.

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'Cause, like, I know the work.

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There are a lot of work- Yeah, yeah, yeah … that's put behind the scenes

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and- No, I wasn't, I wasn't suggesting it was expensive for teacher training.

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Teacher training.

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It was- It's for you.

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For me.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Gotcha.

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Gotcha.

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Gotcha.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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I feel like they shouldn't call it teacher training almost.

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I feel like they should call it, like, I don't know, deepen

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your practice or something.

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Mm. 'Cause I don't think most people are gonna go and be teachers.

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They're not.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Some do, some not.

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Right.

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Right, right.

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And it's kinda like this… It's just this is the evolution

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of yoga in the first place.

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You know, you just… It's, it cannot stay the same- Yeah … no matter what.

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You do have the ancient wisdom, but some of it will just evolve as we're changing.

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Yeah.

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So it is probably we should call it something else now, but it is what it-

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You mean the whole- The teacher training … the whole yoga thing or teacher training?

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Yeah.

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Right.

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And the whole yoga probably is to be honest.

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A new name for yoga?

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Yeah.

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Well, let's try to think of one.

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Embodied practice or- Right … I don't know.

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Yeah.

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That's, that's… That doesn't have a ring to it.

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Yoga's got a good two syllables, yoga.

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Yeah, yoga.

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Yeah.

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It's pretty good.

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But with the teacher training, uh, it's just, yeah, it's, it

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just became available, accessible.

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You know?

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Right.

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If you really think about it, at least, like, I can speak from my perspective or

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the, the, the stories that I've heard.

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Even, like, in '80s, '80s, '90s, like, in, in this Soviet, uh,

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times, it wasn't… Like, you had to look for the information of yoga.

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Like, it would be some scraps of copies of paper- Right … just given to you

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underground in some basements- Mm … and people, like, secretly study and practice.

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Huh.

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You know?

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So for a while it was not available.

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Now it's available.

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Now you can just, you know- It's everywhere.

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It's everywhere.

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Yeah.

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When you were in Lithuania, were you, were you… Was there, were there yoga

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studios and stuff like- Yeah, yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Studios, it was… I was practicing there more of a classic.

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Right.

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Classic- Right … uh, kind of.

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You just… You're not very adjusted.

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You just, you just practice.

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Do you remember the first time you, you went, you did yoga?

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I went to the gym.

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I was here in the States in Columbus.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And, um, yeah, and then I just… I, I reached the point, I think it was,

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like, around 25, 24, when I would be in the party and I would just- Ask myself,

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"What's the point of everything?"

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Yeah.

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Like, yeah- Yeah … we're getting into that.

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So I would just ask people random questions.

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People like, "What are, what are you talking about?" So

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I met- Have another drink.

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What are you doing?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And eventually drink yourself into like- Right, and then to, yeah … you

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know, like, "Yeah, let's go blah, blah."

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Yeah, yeah.

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And then the next morning you wake up like, "Wait a second." Y- yeah.

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"Something is off here." Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And the thing is also was about a, uh, I took a, uh, Asian philosophy class- Okay

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… in the OSU, and I think that was also already moving, grooving stuff for me.

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Huh.

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Yeah.

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What, what about it do you, do you remember anything particular?

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Um, j- I mean, just the, just a whole new way of looking at life.

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Right.

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You know?

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Just, just that was fascinating and so novel for me.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So I think that was plenty on just, just kind of sit down with that and

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contemplate and, you know- Right.

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Right, right … try to understand.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Huh, interesting.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, um, you're, you're infant- you're in Norway, you're at the,

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in the fj- by the fjords By the fjords … you're, you're work-

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Yeah … what are you doing for work?

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I was working in the hotel.

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Okay, hotel.

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Housekeeping, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I worked behind the front desk at the hotel in London.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Didn't love it, but there was a crazy Turkish woman who was the

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boss, and she literally was…

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Yeah.

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Well, London crazy enough for what it is, you know?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, I liked her- It was fun … and she, she still, like,

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follows me on Instagram, so that's- There you go … yeah, yeah.

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You still keep that connection.

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Yeah.

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We got that real strong bond still.

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There you go.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Talk about the old days a lot.

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Remember that time you yelled at me for moving the boxes?

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Yeah.

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Um- Oh, those are sweet times, though.

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Oh, they were.

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What, what are they- How old were you?

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How old were you?

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I'm 51.

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No, how old were you when you were in London?

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At the hotel?

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Yeah.

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26, 27. Okay.

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Sometime.

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Yeah, so- Yeah … good times.

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Yeah, it was good.

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I was not in a good…

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I, I didn't know what was going on with me or I was just

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kind of in a weird, you know?

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I hadn't- Mm-hmm … yeah.

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But I did enjoy it.

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Yeah, I got to travel over Europe and stuff, and that was fun.

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Um- Yeah … yeah.

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Yeah, it was good.

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It's kind of like a work that you just don't have to invest

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too much of your attention.

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Right.

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You clock in and you clock out, and then you go and, you know, have fun.

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And most of the time I was just, like, on the computer-

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Yeah … 'cause it was still… Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It was exciting.

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Yeah.

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Um, it is interesting, though, that growing up in Lithuania, did you

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get… You, I mean, you got to see a lot of Europe, like, that's where you

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traveled probably, right, when you went?

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Some.

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People expect, but I didn't really travel that much.

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Okay.

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I think I'm catching up now.

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Oh, okay.

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Every time I go home, I'm like- Right … we're going

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there, there, there, and there.

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Yeah.

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I just end up staying longer in places, so that was just a different

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experience- Right … because one thing when you just go there and stay

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for a week or two, but you actually immerse yourself into, oh, this is

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what commute like is in London- Yeah

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every single day- Yeah … from zone one to two to… You know?

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And then this is, this is, ah, this is how you spend half of

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your life in London underground.

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That was the moment when I realized this city is eating me, and I cannot… Yeah,

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I, I, I don't live my life anymore.

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The subway?

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Yeah.

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Or the- And just the city itself

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tube?

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Yeah.

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The tube, the just, just, you know, the commute, the just

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from point A to point B. Yeah.

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I lived in the hotel that I worked at, so it was great.

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I just walked upstairs.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But as a result, I didn't see as much of the city as I would have because I was

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always stuck in a certain neighborhood.

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Yeah.

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But, but yeah.

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Um- Gosh, life is a lot about redundancy, isn't it?

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It sure is.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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So I appreciate this, uh, bringing together just to

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kind of talk about it Yeah.

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How often… I was talking to a friend and I was, this is a couple months ago, and I

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was like, "How often have, when's the last time you just sat down with somebody and

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talked to them for, like, an hour or two?"

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Yeah.

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And he's like, "Uh, I don't actually remember. I mean, we had some

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beers last week, and, you know, you talk, but it's not, like, a

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focused… I don't know." Yeah.

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It seems like a thing that's going away, and I think that it's kind of gone away.

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COVID did a lot to help it kind of, um, but even before that, I think

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it kind of was starting to go away, and I think it's community too.

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Like, you could go on a whole trail about why we're losing the, uh, ability to,

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like, have conversations- Mm-hmm … and why, but, like, it's unfortunate.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know?

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It's a loss of community is what we've lost.

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Yeah.

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And it makes me sad.

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Mm-hmm.

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So- Norway.

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Norway.

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Norway, um, beautiful time.

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Beautiful time.

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Sure.

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Gosh, amazing time.

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So good.

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Made you happy?

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Ah, it just, like, switched something inside Mm-hmm.

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Like, the place or the experience in the place?

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The experience in the place.

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People, a lot of nomads there.

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Mm-hmm.

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People just kind of go from one place to the next, seasonal jobs.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, you see cult- like, you know, you see so many different cultures.

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Right.

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All the cruise ships that just- Oh, right, right, right … you know?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's, uh… And then I, I also got very lucky to get there when it was, it

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was, like, un- anomalically hot summer.

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Which means how hot was it?

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Like, it was hot as, probably as it is now here.

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Oh, wow.

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Yeah.

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So for Norway, it's very unusual.

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Right, right.

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It's usually opposite, and it's quite rainy summertime, and- Right … you

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don't really get too many sunny days, and that was just three months

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straight up sun, and you hike and you, you know, swim in the fjord.

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Mm. We're swimming in the fjord.

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Mm-hmm, yeah.

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Come on.

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Yeah.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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So it's, uh, it was a pure summer.

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Oh, that's nice.

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It was a summer, like, European summer experience.

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It was the movie summer.

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Yes.

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Right.

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All right … totally.

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All right.

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Yeah.

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Eventually, I, uh, uh, 'cause, um, m- my partner, he has, um, Norwegian blood,

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and then, uh- Okay … we went there back just, you know- You went back … I

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want, yeah, I wanted to, him to see it.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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The same place?

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Same place also.

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Did you, you didn't meet him there?

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No.

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Okay.

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No, no, no.

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Right.

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No.

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Strange though that you ended up, after that Norway thing, that you ended up

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finding a partner that has Norwegian- Yeah … strange, like- Uh-huh … you know.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Hey, everything's- Yeah, if you look at it the right way, for sure.

Speaker:

Ah.

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Yeah.

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Everything is.

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Yeah, and then some days I'm like, "No, everything's…" You know?

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If you're look- you can't see me, but- … I can describe with- Yeah, some days-

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… with these little frantic gestures with my hands … everything feels off.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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And that's when they say if it feels off, you just pause, slow

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down, and just kind of, you know.

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Yeah, see, that's the hard part for me, that's what way, the

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slowing down part is the hard part.

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Mm. Yeah.

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Yeah.

Speaker:

Mm. Working on it, working on it.

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Um, it's never too late.

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

Um, so N- after Norway, where did you go then?

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Um, I'm gonna skip part of the story because that's when there was

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another relationships happening- Okay

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and, but I don't wanna have this conversation become

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about the relationships.

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Yeah, no, that's all right.

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But that was the moment of, for me, just very transformational

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because I met somebody.

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Okay.

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And, uh, um, and because I met somebody, I just end up going, whoa, you know,

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you're just going back and forth, and then you, you know, you change your mind

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to stay in Europe, not go to the States.

Speaker:

So I just end up going back to Lithuania.

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Right You know, went back to Norway again and, you know,

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continued the relationships.

Speaker:

And then eventually, um, eventually pandemic happened.

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Mm. February 14th, I think, I came here to the States- Just in time … for this,

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with a business trip, and, uh, we had to extend the trip because, uh, none, all,

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like, the paperwork wasn't done on time.

Speaker:

So we extended my trip, and that's exactly when everything started to shut down.

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And you're, you're in Columbus?

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Yeah.

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It trapped you.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I know why.

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I, I, like, I already did my personal work and understood what was

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happening- Okay … for me at the time.

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Right.

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So, uh, but it was just interesting that, oh, it's not happening just to me.

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Right.

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It's happening for me and the rest of the world, you know?

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Right.

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So everyone's, like, learning something for themselves.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And then my- Yeah … my, uh, my, my ticket was, my ticket back to Lithuania

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was February 28th, which is my birthday.

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Right.

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So I'm just, like… And yeah, I never, I never went back.

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So the gentleman you were dating just was still in Norway at the time?

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Uh, it was a woman.

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A woman, okay.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, sorry to assume.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, she was in Norway at the time?

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Um, she was in, in her home country.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So that ha- that's how that ended, because you got stuck in

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Columbus 'cause of the pandemic?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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So then you've been here ever since.

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And I've been here ever since.

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COVID did it.

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COVID did it, yeah.

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It was very logical to come here because I already had some good-

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Right … friends- Right … you know, mm, from back in the day.

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And, um, it wa- you know, I knew the city, so.

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But, yeah, but still it's, like, odd to come to a place just thinking you're

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visiting and then end, ending up having…

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You know?

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Deep down inside, there probably was many times when I was thinking,

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"I'm, I'm… I probably need to, you know, go back to the States- All

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right … one way or another." And then?

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And sometimes the life, it does it for you.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You know, like, you know, while you're thinking here, we're gonna do the thing.

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We're gonna force your- Yeah … force your hand.

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Yeah.

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Exactly, so.

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And then there was another mess, you know- Right … being here and, uh, after

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10 years not being here, no credit card, no, um, what is it, the credit score.

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Right.

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Right.

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No, no, no place to stay.

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You know, you just kind of go, go, go, go, go.

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So what did you do?

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Uh, hustled.

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But I stayed with my friend and then, um, and then I quickly found my partner.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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We kind of, like, we were connected.

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We know each other for many years.

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Oh, okay.

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Over 15 years.

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So you knew him from the last time you were, your first- Yeah.

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Oh, wow.

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I knew him from the very first time.

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Oh, that's crazy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So it just, yeah, happened.

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Oh, I like that.

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Yeah.

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Um, and when did the… Did you start getting into the… I'm gonna go into,

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like, the yoga- Mm … somatic training.

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Mm-hmm.

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All that kind of stuff.

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Um, when did you start getting into, like, heavy into that?

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Was that in Col- Like, when… Just was that in this last Columbus jaunt, or

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was it before that that you started too?

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Columbus 2008, 2009.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So that was the time when, um, I was asking myself a lot of questions

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that I couldn't get answers.

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And I, uh, got, uh, very sick for almost two weeks with a high fever.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then one day I woke up, it was like, um, Friday night, 8:00 PM.

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Mm. And I'm like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the teacher training.

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I don't have money, but I'm going to do teacher training." And I f-

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found a teacher here in Columbus.

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I emailed her, and I start studying In the next couple months, I think,

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or something like that Was it just regular yoga or was it the- Hatha,

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ashtanga and hatha Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I did, like, a whole thing.

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I was fasting for a week while, and, you know, studying, and I was

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just asking too many questions.

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And then you ended up actually teaching.

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I didn't, actually.

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Oh, all right.

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Fair enough.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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So I, uh, finished the teacher training, and then it was very

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quick when I got my degree.

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Mm-hmm.

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And that's when I'm like, "Okay, I'm done here.

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I need to go b- home." Okay.

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And I didn't teach for several years, and I barely practiced

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Um, I lost the flavor of yoga 'cause it was not fixing my problem.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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'Cause I was putting a lot of ef- like, you know, expectations.

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Yoga will, will, uh, help me.

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It's funny how that works.

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It's like with meditation too.

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I feel like I can't necessarily… I don't notice that it's working

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until I notice that it's working- Mm … if you know what I mean.

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Um, and by working, I mean that I'm actually able to have some distance

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between myself and my thoughts and whatever, et cetera, et cetera.

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But, like, it's one of the things that I struggle to maintain as

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a practice sometimes because the effects aren't immediately

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apparent, as opposed to, like- Yeah

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you know what I mean?

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Like, I know that if I do it, it'll be good for me in the long run because I

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feel like, to me anyway, it's like a very… It's, it's, it's a path, right?

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It's not the thing.

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Yeah.

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But, um, and I think probably the same with yoga too 'cause, like,

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I'll do it where I'll do it, like, every day for, like, months- Yeah

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and then suddenly I'll just be like… Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, you have to trust the, um, the tool.

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Right.

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You gotta trust the tool.

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And if you don't know how to use it, and if your life, in a way,

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is messy, you know, it's, it's, it's always implicit and explicit.

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You cannot yoga your way in… Y- you cannot, by practicing yoga, solve the

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problems that on the everyday life.

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You still need to address them.

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Yeah.

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For sure.

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You still gotta eat.

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You know, you still gotta eat.

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You st- you still have to show up- Right … for whatever that,

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you know, whatever that is.

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Right.

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So and that's when in… It's not just inside and, you know, not just… No.

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You, you fi- fix your stuff and practice yoga basically.

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For me, it's part of it.

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For me, it's part of fixing the stuff.

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It's all part and package, like- Yeah … fixing me and-

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Mm-hmm … and those all, yeah.

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Um, and what, uh, uh, the… So I have no idea, and I've always

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wondered, what is somatic therapy that, um, that you've been doing?

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Mm. 'Cause Emily mentioned, I think she did a session and she really liked it.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I was… Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, somatic therapy came to my life, uh, after I entered the space of dance

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and movement therapy in Lithuania.

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Okay.

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So I did the yoga.

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I went… You know, that's when I met my, uh, at that time boyfriend.

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And that's when I started getting into all different kind of practices.

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Mm-hmm.

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And Lithuania full of that.

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Very esoteric, very pagan.

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Uh, you can find anything basically.

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Huh.

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Mm-hmm.

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Wonder why that is.

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Good me- like a, a little mecca for, for this stuff.

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You know, we have a big festival that, you know, summertime goes for,

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I can't remember, 10 or, or t- 10 days or two weeks, and they bring

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all practitioners from all over.

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Huh.

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Mm-hmm.

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Why do you think that is?

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In, like Lithuania just, it seems very somewhat random.

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I think Lithuania is spiritual.

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Oh, yeah?

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Mm-hmm.

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There is something about it, just the way… A kind of paganism I think, uh,

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teaches you a little bit of that, is that, you know, you worship nature.

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Huh.

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You worship seasons.

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Right.

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You worship time

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Um, the way it changes, you know, you, um… Yeah.

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So the relationship with environment- Right … is- Right … you know?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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More intimate- For sure … I would say.

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Yeah.

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So, and, um, yeah, I don't remember how I got into this dance and

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movement therapy, but I entered the space, and it just cracked me open.

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Mm-hmm.

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It was just instant.

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Something just that was like another, things are just not gonna be the same.

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Huh.

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And they weren't.

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The movement, the expression, the vulnerability in the

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group of people was just

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Insane What, what is it, if you don't mind me… I'm, I'm ignorant of what

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somatic yoga, or what somatic therapy actually is So somatic therapy is,

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like, umbrella term Okay Right?

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So there is many different modalities Okay Dance and movement therapy is considered

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to be somatic because it works bottom to top Okay So it's a body-oriented

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bottom-to-top approach Okay So rather than thinking through it- Right … you're

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feeling, sensing through it Okay You're working with the nervous system, with,

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uh, the body, sensations, emotions.

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Um, the inquiry happens through the body- Right … with the body

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That's a thing I struggle with.

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My therapist is always like, "How does it feel?" Like, I'm like, "I'm upset."

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"How does it… But how does it feel in your body?" Mm-hmm And I, and I,

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you know, I've started thinking more about that just because she's… But

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it's just not something that comes naturally to me Mm-hmm But really all

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emotions are just feelings in your body.

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Like, that's, I think, where they all- Mm-hmm I don't know the science

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on that, but you know what I mean?

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Mm-hmm Um, but yeah, it makes sense Mm-hmm.

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Yeah I wonder what… Yeah, I should try it.

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We- That would be good for me … we can talk about it more.

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I can explain you.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah Unless it goes into this conversation, uh, why would

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it be so hard for you to feel it in the first place, and, uh- Right.

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Of course … how you can, you know, slowly practice your way into it- Mm

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… just like you do it in mi- mindfulness and yoga and stuff Mm. Right Yeah Right Yeah.

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Yeah Yeah He's smiling right now.

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Thank you for describing.

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No video.

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No video.

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Um, how you feel about Columbus now?

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You've been here for a total of what, now eight, nine, 15, 14

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years total, something like that?

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In total Oh, yeah.

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Altogether- Right … probably it's going to, like, 13 years

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or something Right Yeah.

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I mean, I'm… There is many times I'm grateful because this is when

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I actually was able to go back to teaching yoga and, you know, teaching

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the way I'm teaching right now.

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You know, C- Columbus definitely gave me that, uh, opportunity to do many

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mistakes Right And especially teaching after pandemic Right Um, and, um, yeah.

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And so and then also starting my own practice as a somatic therapist.

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Mm-hmm And then now it's the time when I know that I'm going to

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be gone soon Oh, you're leaving?

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Yeah Oh, where you, where you going?

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I have no plan, but we're going Oh, all right This is it How much…

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When do you think you're gonna go?

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Oh, m- there are conversations.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Yeah, so- Right … like, like, you know, sometimes you don't wanna say it

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out loud, so you don't wanna ruin it.

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Right, right, right.

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Yeah.

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Right, right.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Who knows when this will air?

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You might already be gone.

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Yeah.

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What's that?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Who knows when this will actually be on the, you know?

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I'll be like- You might already be gone by then … "Hey." Yeah, yeah.

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"Come over and visit for part two." Right, right.

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Well, it depends on where you end up at.

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End up, yeah.

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Oh, no.

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Wherever I go, it's gonna be a good place.

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Right.

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In the States, you're thinking, or somewhere else in the-

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Maybe States, maybe not.

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Exciting.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Time for a change.

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Mm. And your partner's down with it?

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I mean, he has no choice but No, he is down.

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Right, right, right.

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He would love to.

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He's like, um, it's time, you know, for him as well.

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Yeah, you gotta at some point actually get out of Columbus.

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It… You know, if only to come back, but still.

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Hey, if I would be right now in a place when I wanna have children- Oh, for sure.

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Yeah … you know, like, if I would have a very specific intention, I would do this.

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Yes.

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I know why, and that's the reason, 'cause, you know, I know how

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other parts of the States are.

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That would make sense.

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But I'm not.

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Yeah.

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So why?

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You know?

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Yeah.

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And that's all it really is.

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It is very… I do.

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It's like I moved from New York where n- you know, it's fine to be

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single at f- 51 and have no kids.

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Yeah.

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It's kind of normal almost to here where, like, almost all my friends mo-

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a lot of my friends anyway have kids and a family and all these things.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it's, you know, it's just a different way of, of… You know, it, it, it's not a

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great place to be s- single and childless because it, and, and in your 50s,

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just because it's not… I don't know.

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Yeah.

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Um- Just go somewhere else.

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Yeah.

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Gather, find a remote job, and go somewhere else-

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Yeah … where you can… Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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'Cause I don't wanna… Yeah, yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Or maybe I'll meet somebody here and then end up m- having a family.

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Then I'll be like- … "But I don't wanna do that, though," so.

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I've also been talking about, like, getting a jo- like, a remote job for

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so long now that I feel like if I, if this is, uh, two years from now

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or five years from now, if I'm still talking about it, it's probably…

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'll delete that part.

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Well, you know, we need to sit down and be honest with ourselves, and

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are we doing something about that?

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'Cause we can get really stuck in the place where we just talk about

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it, talk about it, talk about it.

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Oh, yeah.

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Do the thing.

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Yeah.

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Whatever that is.

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And I was just reminded, uh, the other day, I was longing for that my younger

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self that was just doing random things.

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You know, we, and we just talked about it, and we just touched

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the tip of the iceberg, you know?

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Right.

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Just a quick one, but I'm like, "I miss her. What, what

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the fuck happened?" You know?

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Right.

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I wanna go back and become a little bit more honest and a little bit more

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raw and, and just do it, you know?

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'Cause, you know, for me it's not anymore about destination point because

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I know exactly what the destination is.

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Yeah, I think it's, for me it's like- Forcing myself to

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get out of my comfort zone.

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Mm. Like, I feel like we- it's… The older I get, I don't know about

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everybody, but I think most people as they get older, you get very stuck

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in routine and things like this.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it becomes harder to wanna, like, do new things, all these other…

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So I feel like in my life, the comfort zone outside of that has been where

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all the good stuff always happens.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So I almost make a deliberate effort just to do that because what else is life

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for aside from- Exactly … you know?

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And it's really, it's definitely, it's easy to just get calcified and, and, yeah.

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It's easy to not- Mm … do stuff.

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Mm. It's real easy.

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I've noticed that myself, and again, I really wanna blame this on Columbus,

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but there would be a moment when I just cannot get out of the house.

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Yeah.

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You know?

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Just can't.

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Like, dude, like, what's happening?

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Yeah, and, so I spent the last… I worked remotely for the last, I don't know,

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three, God, three or four years now.

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Um, and I'm just here in my house by myself.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it started to drive me, like, legitimately crazy because it's

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just, like, I, I, I'm, you know, not interacting with human beings.

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It's just like… And it wouldn't, I wouldn't wanna go back to an office,

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but it was also just like, yeah.

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And I thought about doing this many times when I had that job because I was

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like, "Well, that'd be a wee way to, like, at least interact with people."

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Yeah.

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But better late than never, I guess.

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Yeah.

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Um, but yeah.

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Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't good, the working remotely thing.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it was politics too, which is not good for the brain at all.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And it was post-pandemic, pandemic, post-pandemic.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It, it, it, I mean, we think, you know, that we're in the same place.

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We're not.

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We're just never gonna be the same.

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Oh, yeah.

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No.

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Yeah.

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No.

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I think that bet- between the pandemic and the internet, I think

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that there's something cracked, and I think that, I don't know how it

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fixes itself, but there's something kind of cracked in the world now,

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and it's… And I can't describe it or put a finger on it, but it's a

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result of too much information- Yeah

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and, um, too much stimulus and all these different things, and this is

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why we have, you know- Yeah … Donald Trump and all the other bad

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people- Yeah … doing bad things.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Of course, there's always bad people doing bad things.

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It's just not always been so visible.

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Everything's changing.

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Yeah.

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And the faster we just get over ourselves, the easier it will become, literally.

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So everything is changes, changes in the way.

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Nothing stay the same, you know?

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We cannot also sit and, like, say they-

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And us Oh, I agree totally with that.

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Yeah We're still part of the- Yeah … whole experience- Yeah … whether

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it's just America or the whole world, you know, it's, it's, you know?

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Yeah.

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I do feel like there are friendlier places to be though.

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Like- Yeah … I, I was in Mexico City, and it felt, the vibe felt lighter.

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Mm-hmm You know?

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, and maybe it was just 'cause I was a tourist or a foreigner in

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a foreign land, but it just felt- Yeah … I had a friend who came from

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New York to stay with me for, like, a week, and he lives in Brooklyn.

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And he was like, "You know, when I walked down the street in Brooklyn,

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like, there's always one person who will scowl at me or something- Mm-hmm

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or give me a…" And he's like, "I don't get any of that here." And

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I was like, "Oh yeah, that's true.

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There's not a lot of-" Mm … "like, negative energy on the streets

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or whatever." Mm. I mean, there's occasionally, sure.

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But, um, yeah, bad vibes.

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Mm-hmm.

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Anyway, who knows?

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Guatemala, though.

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Have you been to Guatemala?

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No.

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That's where I wanna go, to Guatemala.

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No.

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Yeah.

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No.

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Central America and stuff.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Those places, I think, also have-

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A longstanding culture to back them up Yeah You know?

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Yeah So it's, there is something about that that just either that's devotion or

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the, the culture itself, the interaction with families, between families,

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with elders, and, um, I think it's important Yeah, I, I don't disagree.

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Yeah.

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I do think that there's a particular thing in America where it's, like, the idea of

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the American dream versus what's actually the reality in America right now, which is

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not that great Mm-hmm I mean, it's better than a lot of places, but for a lot of

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people, they're, they're not doing well at all Mm-hmm And I feel like that's why…

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And I think it, it's a, it's like a circle, right?

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It's like the idea of America running into the, the reality of America, and it's

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kind of circling the… Something like that Roman Empire had a downfall True,

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and it was because they went bankrupt What's happening now, yeah I know.

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I know.

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That's just what I'm saying It's, you know, if you really think from

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or step aside and just really look at the way nature works, the way, the

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way seasons change, the way everything revolves and then changes, and that's

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what I was saying about the change.

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It will change Oh, yeah.

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Yeah Do we have to wake up every morning and still deal with certain things?

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Absolutely.

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Is it uncomfortable?

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Absolutely Or do we have to deal with them?

Speaker:

That's a question that I have a lot, though.

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Like, I'll read the news, but am I dealing with it?

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Is it doing anything?

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Yeah Like, I honestly…

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Like, maybe it's 'cause I worked in politics, but, like, th- I don't have

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a lot of, like, anxiety or, like, anger about what's going on in the world,

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what's going on- Mm-hmm … in the, in the country, because it doesn't do anything.

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My anxiety's not gonna change anything.

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Mm-hmm My, my worry's not gonna change anything.

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Yeah.

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In fact, it's probably what they want, right?

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It's probably, like, winning for them- Mm-hmm … in a way for you to sit

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there and be anxious about things.

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And but then the question becomes is when does it start

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to personally affect me, right?

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Yeah Because, like, right now, me and most of my friends, w- we haven't

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been in a profound way- Mm-hmm

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affected.

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But I think if it, when, if and when it starts to truly, like, affect

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me and my friends, that's when your perspective changes on the whole

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thing Mm-hmm Yeah Yeah Because right now it's just anxiety or whatever.

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It's just posting on Instagram or whatever people are doing to- Yeah, it's

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a, you know, it's a little discomfort Sure Yeah, and life is about, you know,

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it's uncomfortable often And people wanna be angry at something Right

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People are addicted to anger And fear Yeah Yeah A drama addicted, I would

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say Yeah, yeah It's a drama addicted.

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Like, I wanna see some drama.

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That gives me that rush Right.

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Right You know?

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Whether it's the, whatever that is, whether it's the angry stuff- Yeah

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… fearful stuff, or just s- somebody had a bad day or whatever, whatever.

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Mm. It's a drama addiction.

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I- It's, it's a nervous system that runs on sympathetic Right To survival, you

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know, mode, and it's, you know, if, if, if your system is on this mode, you will

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be looking for stuff like that Sure.

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Then you got cute kittens on the internet too, though.

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That's always nice.

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And that's what you do.

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Yeah You go, you go, you go, you kinda like, uh, feed your sympathetic, and then

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you go to the kittens, and then you feed your parasympathetic, and you just ride

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the wave Right, right, right Yeah Then you go take yoga, and then, you know, whatever

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Um, did you just teach yourself how to do that Instagram content you're doing?

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'Cause as a video editor, I'm like, "That's solid." You're like, like, I'm

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like, "Oh, well done." Like, I'm not trying to… But, like, it's, like,

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well edited- Thank you … and cleverly, like, yeah, put in- Put together Yeah,

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really cool, yeah Yeah, teaching myself.

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Do you use, like, do you, do you use the editor in the app or?

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Like, just CapCut.

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Ca- Oh, CapCut, CapCut Yeah, CapCut Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I just wish everything wasn't Instagram now.

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I just wish that, like, you know, it's become Like an everything box for like

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if I wanna put out a movie or something, I'll probably put it on Instagram- Mm

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… or if I wanna, you know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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Um.

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And do you have anything else besides Instagram?

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N- n- no, I don't have TikTok.

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I had to get rid of that because that's just- Yeah … that's just the, the

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devil's- Well, think about people who actually also, you know, do the Tik- like,

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like m- some of my friends send me TikTok.

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I'm like, "Don't send me…" Dude … I, I don't have time for this.

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I can't.

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I criticize my phone usage a lot, like in my head.

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Like, I'm like pretty cognizant of it, but like the amount of time some

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people spend on their phones, like, just scrolling is- Ah, yeah … insanity.

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Yeah.

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Um, I w- then I, I learned about how much people are, and I'm like, "Oh,

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I'm actually not so, so bad," right?

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I'm actually s- doing all right.

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Perfect.

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I thought I was in bad shape here, but-

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people are sitting there for hours just looking at- Yeah … Instagram videos.

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Yeah.

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Um, yeah.

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Yeah, we did the, um, the digital detox, uh, like a month ago- Oh,

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yeah, yeah … with my partner first.

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How long did that, how long was it for?

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Just 24 hours.

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Oh, okay.

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But it was, like, no devices at all.

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Right.

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So you, you're gonna have none of that.

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Like, you're not touching, not touching computer.

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No, no pad, no TV, none of that.

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Right.

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You're just fully on, yeah.

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You have lights, though.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I mean, not the electricity.

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Yeah, okay.

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Yeah.

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Just, just anything that device, device related.

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That'd be hardcore to do it, like no electricity even.

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Like, go Amish.

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Ooh.

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Go like full Amish.

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That, that's possible.

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Throwing it out there next time.

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Possible.

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All right.

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Totally.

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So how did it go with the- It was fun, and also, like, unexpected, to be honest.

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To, you know, you kind of have this idea like, "Oh, I'm gonna do this-

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Mm … I'm gonna do that." But if you really think about it, it just kind

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of goes into, oh, I cannot use maps, or I cannot use my parking my car.

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'Cause you can still go- Right … and do the coffee shop, right?

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Or there is some things, and then because you don't have the movement,

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the motion- Mm-hmm … of the, the phone or the entertainment, you start

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seeing really and noticing things that you not, not, have not noticed before.

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We end up going to, like, a, a gallery that we never pay attention before.

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We end up drawing, you know, at home half of the evening,

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probably reading to each other.

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Like, we were reading to each other.

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Love it.

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You know?

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We end up walking, like, German village, like 12:00 AM just, like, you know,

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at night, just, just taking a walk.

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Why don't we do this all the time?

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I don't know.

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I don't know.

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Uh, well, no, I mean, that's the question I'd be asking myself when I

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was doing digital detox and walking around at midnight- … saying, "Why

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don't I do this every night?" You know?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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What's the thing that most people get wrong about you?

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I think people probably think that I'm, like, too… I, I am kind of

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bold and I kind of say what I think.

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I can seem this way.

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Yeah.

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Or I may seem that I'm just Eastern European, like you're all, you know.

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Right, right, right.

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But deep down inside I'm very, like, a s- softy.

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Right.

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Right.

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What about you?

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What about me?

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What people, you know, think.

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Oh, what people get wrong about me?

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Mm-hmm.

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That's a tough one.

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See, that's the thing.

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I've been confronted with this in past interviews where people are like,

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"What about you?" And I'm like, "Oh, I should probably have an answer for

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all these questions- Mm-hmm … if I'm going to ask them myself."

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What do people get wrong about me?

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I think people think that I'm just, um… I think a lot of people think

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that I'm just, 'cause I am, a just, uh, kind of m- a joke-making person.

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Mm-hmm.

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Just, like, sarcastic.

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I make wisecracks all the time.

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Mm-hmm.

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I think that that becomes a lot of people's, like, impression of me.

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I'm just going to make some sarcastic, um, comment about it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Which is true to a degree.

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Like, I do do that.

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That's part of my… But it's also not all of me.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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So I don't know if that's anything somebody gets wrong about me.

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Mm. E- except for thinking that that's all that I am, but that would be- Okay.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think that this a, it's a type of question that we need to ask each other.

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So for instance, if you would ask me what people get wrong about you-

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Oh … I can give you the answer.

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All right, I'm, I'm here.

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I'm listening.

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Yeah.

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And then- Oh … and then that's how… That could be a way.

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And I give you an example, 'cause you n- you don't seem very talkative person.

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Okay.

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And, um… Or I would say just reserved.

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Like in yoga class.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that's- Yeah … yeah.

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Yeah, I'm not s- very social in yoga class.

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Mm-hmm.

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But- But in general, even the outside, there's this demeanor.

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But again- Yeah, no … this is where we're answering the question to like-

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No, I'm listening … what seem, like what it seems- Yeah, no … to me, right?

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I'm, I'm hearing you.

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So it's just demeanor itself.

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Y- y- you're there, you come in v- very quick, "Hello," you

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know, "Bye." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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This is it.

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Now we're sitting here, you're chatty.

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You're asking questions.

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Like, whoa.

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But it's, but, but the difference is it's safe here.

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That's the difference for me in my, in my head.

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It's like… Um, I was thinking about this as I was taking a

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walk the other night, I'm like…

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And I'm like, "Why am I enjoying this podcast?" Because it allows me an

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opportunity to be like, reach out to people that I wanna talk to and learn

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more about, and it's… If we need the context of this, that's fine with me.

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Mm-hmm.

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Because, like, I have, like, uh, I would say insecurity- Mm-hmm … from

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childhood and re- you know.

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Um, so it's a lot of that.

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It's a lot of, um, me shutting down because of experiences from my childhood-

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Mm-hmm … that fucked me up, and so.

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Yeah.

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Um, but I'm much better than I used to be.

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Mm-hmm.

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And actually, it's nice to hear that, you saying that, because it actually

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is pretty enlightening in a way.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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And the thing, this is how we kind of, like I always say, it's really hard

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to m- know- What is the label when you're sitting inside of your own jar?

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Right That's why getting that, you know, that s- like, perspective

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from, from another person.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'm trying to think of mine for you now.

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Mm. Yeah.

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I would say that it's kind of what you said in a way, that I

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think that a lot of people…

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You come, you come across w- as kind of, yes, Eastern European kind of, you know?

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, but, but really, like, you're, like, a little goofy.

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Mm. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You see, I wouldn't think about it, but now that I'm thinking about yoga

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classes, yeah- Yeah … I like to joke a little bit or I would like to goof

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more, but yoga seems to be so serious, and it's just how hard to move people.

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Like, you know, 'cause you need that… You cannot do it on your own.

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You have to… You need that somebody else to go with you on that journey, you know?

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Yeah.

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No, I get it.

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And, like, so much pressure is put on you because you are teaching.

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You are leading the class, and if you're like, "Eh, eh, eh,"

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and there's no response, I'm like, "Eh, okay, let's just…"

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I would say that I totally understand what you're saying, but, like, one

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of my biggest frustrations with yoga… And, eh, I really struggle

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to find classes that I really like.

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Mm-hmm.

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I find that a lot of classes are just kind of the same cookie cutter kind of thing.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then it's kind of this generic music in the background, and music is a thing.

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If you're gonna have music, at least have, you know… Either,

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either have it very faint or have it, you know… But don't just play

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me generic… Anyway, it's a thing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I hear you.

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Um- And you're also from the film background- Right.

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Right, right, right … so you're very, you know, it just- I wanna, I wanna

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produce, I wanna produce the yoga class.

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Produce the sound.

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Um- I would, I would play it … I have this idea of, like, a yoga class, like,

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a studio that's got, like, great lights.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like, really good, like, crazy, weird lighting, 'cause I

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actually got some bizarre lights.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then, like, an incredible, like, sound system as well, and it becomes

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a whole thing where you can go and you can, um, yeah, have a whole experience.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, my point being, you're doing something different, and unique, and

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interesting to me, and I think a lot of people are feeling that as well.

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Mm. So I don't think… Yeah.

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Mm. Yeah.

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Thank you.

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I appreciate that.

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Um, 'cause it is, like… I go to every other yoga class, and there's a

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few teachers who it's just like, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, you know, that's definitely, uh, inspired by Katona Yoga.

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Right, which I'm still trying to wrap my head around.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Big love of my life.

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I'm super sore every time I go to that class.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I hope it's in a good way.

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Uh, it, I'm, I'm… I have to go to a physical therapist, but

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that's a whole nother story.

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Not about your class, but about- Oh, okay, okay, okay,

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okay … you know what I'm saying?

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Yeah, that's why you're here, actually.

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Actually, medical, medical bills because of your Katona class.

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And here it is.

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Right, right, right.

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Um, how did you get into the Katona?

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It, it came to me from different directions.

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Uh, Josie Schweitzer, uh, she, uh, used to live here, and she,

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um, owned two studios in Columbus.

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At the same time, I saw the training coming from… about Katona

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from, uh, teachers from Europe.

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Okay.

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It just kind of happened within, like, few weeks.

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I'm like, "This, whatever that is- It's a science, yeah … it

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looks… it's very interesting to me." And then I took that training.

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It was online training, and, and I, um, I was just in awe, very

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confused, but deep down inside, the material felt very familiar.

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Like, I already know it.

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Huh.

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It's almost like I had to relearn it.

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Right.

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And that was it, and I just start.

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It just really… It gave me information.

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It gave me the answers to why that I couldn't find in just a classical teacher

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training, and, you know, it gave me an opportunity to really look inside

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from a very different perspective.

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What do you think it is about it in particular that, that, that brings that?

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Um, Navine, who basically, uh, developed the method, let's put it this way.

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Mm-hmm.

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I think it w- you know, what she did, she just saw, like, different

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modalities because it's like… it's Chinese medicine, it's Kundalini

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and Hatha yoga, it's geometry, it's the esoteric conversation

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through the metaphors, numerology.

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So much more to it that, uh, even, like, it's somatic for me.

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It… Like, I really saw that it's, like, three-dimensional

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Huh … rather than two-dimensional.

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Huh.

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And it's, it's, it… Yeah, it just moves your imagination in a way that you

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would not expect to be moved in that way.

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Hmm.

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First, I learned about joints, about organs.

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I have organs.

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Oh, yeah, they're moved.

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Oh, that's what happens when I'm actually practicing yoga, you know?

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Right.

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Glands.

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N- like, and it was going along with somatic therapy at the same time.

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Katona, and then some, uh, dance and movement, and then somatic.

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I'm like, "I am… Whatever that is, I'm in a good place." Right.

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I know this is it I know, like, this is it.

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This is what I'm doing for sure The pieces all kind of- And they're

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all just coming together … came together, right … constantly.

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And then whenever I talk about this material, whenever I have somatic

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therapy sessions, Katona comes in.

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It kind of waves, you know?

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It's this…

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You just… You're kind of stitching that theory.

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And then there in, in Katona, you know, one-on-one or in, in, in the classes,

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same way I can see how somatic, uh, aspect comes in and just… It's

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beautifully… It's a beautiful dance Huh.

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Yeah.

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It made me understand the world, the way the patterns, the way, the way the world

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is, and how I can function in this world.

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It gave me very, uh, practical tools to use, applicable, accessible tools.

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'Cause there's one of the things is that all of the tools are available.

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You know, like always Naveen says, it's, you know, the world is open book.

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Anything is available right now.

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Now we're getting too much information.

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Now we don't know how to navigate it.

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And I heard somebody say, I can't remember right now who was it, but she

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said something like this: "We're having the tools, but really the mastery of

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the tools and knowing h- what, when, and how to use it" Yeah That's it.

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You don't need much.

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But know when, what, and how to use it.

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Yeah, I like that.

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And that's when it…

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Oh, with Katona material, I was able to put my life back together.

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How would you describe Katona Yoga to somebody who's never-

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Who's never done Katona Yoga?

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… come across it before?

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Yeah.

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Or- It's kind of like with somatic therapy.

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Right Just come to the class Come to the session.

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Like, I'll give you just, like, a free session.

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Right Come to my session, you know, 'cause this is… Like, it's

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impossible to describe an experience.

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Sure.

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But what if somebody… What if you're on, like, say, a podcast, and somebody's like,

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"What actually is Katona Yoga?" Yeah.

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I would probably say just a, a method developed by Navin

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Michaan that, uh, includes or involves Hatha yoga, Kundalini,

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breathwork, geometry, metaphor- Okay

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Chinese medicine- Okay … uh, Dao principles, main principles of Dao.

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Yeah.

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I'd never- And it's constantly evolving.

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Yeah.

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I'd never heard of it until the cla- your class in the… Yeah.

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Yeah I'd never come across it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, do you think you've learned anything about yourself or that w-

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or that you've learned anything…

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I don't know.

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It's impossible to say.

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I've learned things about myself since living in Columbus that I hadn't

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known before, and I don't… but I don't know if they're about Columbus

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or if they're about me, or if, if, if it would, would've been different.

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But I think every place you end up ends up teaching you something.

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Yeah Right?

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Right.

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Oh, let me ask you this question.

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Yeah.

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Why is there so much about Columbus?

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Oh, I don't know.

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I… 'Cause I'm thinking about getting out of here.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Um, what was it about New York that you learned about yourself?

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Um, that I am bad with money.

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Um, that… God, wow, so many things.

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Uh, I mean, that's- Give me, like, give me, like, three or four.

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Good Lord.

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That I am, uh… I mean, positive things, that I am str- stronger

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than I thought I was, for sure.

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Mm. Um, resilient.

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Um, but also that I am not good at, um, doing, uh, networky things,

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which I think actually kind of feeds into… We were talking about the

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first impressions and how I come off as kind of- Mm … and I think that's,

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kinda goes hand-in-hand in a way.

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Okay.

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Um, I just don't have… Networky things, I don't have patience for it.

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I don't like the dynamic of, like… 'Cause with filmmaking, there's a

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lot of, like, networking events, and the- Yeah … dynamic is always like

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we're talking to each other because we want to work, w- we want… And

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I just don't like that dynamic.

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Mm-hmm.

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Just- Mm-hmm … yeah.

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Uh, what camera did you use for the, the- Yeah.

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Um- Yeah, I hear you.

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Yeah.

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I hear you.

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Um, and also that, uh-

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I mean, I don't know.

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I mean, I think I did … Was that four?

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Yeah, that's, that's plenty.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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I, I mean, I had- Like, just whatever first helps … a shit ton of

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debt when I left, so that's- Yeah.

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Yeah, that kind of the, the, the first- Yeah.

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No, I mean, I really- … that you're fed with money.

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No, I mean, I had to leave 'cause of, 'cause I was in a shit ton of

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debt and I was just- Yeah … like, "This is unsustainable." Mm-hmm.

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Um, but, uh, but it was fun.

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It was fun to live there.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um- Well done by the team

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you are f- uh, since you're, like, you know, such a creative

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soul, what inspires you right now?

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Wow.

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Turn this around.

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I like it.

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Um-

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I don't know.

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This I mean, it's an easy answer, but, like, this podcast is really,

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like, uh, the more I've done it and the more I've thought about what it's

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bringing into my world- Mm-hmm … it's really been a positive thing.

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For me personally at this point in my life- Mm … like, it feels like- And

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maybe I'm just saying this because I'm doing it, but like it's been in my head

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for a while, the, the idea for this- Yeah

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just to like… And now that I'm actually doing it, and I'm really

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like… It's been a while since I've done creative work on my own.

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Yeah You know?

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And like had the motivation to do it and actually done it.

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And, um, yeah, I'm pretty, I'm… It's been good in a, a self-esteem

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way, like I'm fucking proud of myself.

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Mm.

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But also in a way that like I'm having long conversations, and it's interesting

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to like, the more conversations I have the more I realize how I converse

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and I think about conversation.

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And, and it's really been good and interesting in a way, and I'm getting

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mo- better at talking to people randomly than I was before in a way.

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Oh, got it.

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You know what I mean?

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Yeah.

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Um.

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Yeah.

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So you're- There's been a lot of growth … you're learning something about

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yourself that- It, yeah … is, yeah.

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Yeah, it's been good.

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The process itself has really been just kind of, um, really rewarding in a way.

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Yeah.

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So yeah.

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And sometimes that, that's what it really takes.

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R- right.

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Right.

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If you're, if you're going to have a good conversation with a person, you

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know, with… And that's what it takes to create a podcast, then why not?

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Right.

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I mean, if we need… It, I mean, uh, honestly part of the origin story

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of this is that my nephew was here.

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He's 14 years old.

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Mm-hmm.

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He came and stayed with me like two or three months ago.

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And again, I've been thinking about this for years, but I haven't

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really thought about it for a while.

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And then he was here, and he's not, he's a teenager so he's not that chatty.

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But I was like, "Do you wanna record a podcast?" Yeah.

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And as soon as he got headphones on, he started talking to me in ways

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that he had never talked before.

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That's awesome.

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He's talking about how it feels to run, and it was like, "Oh, bing." You know?

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Yeah.

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This is awesome.

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Um, because it does, it does open people up in a weird way, you know?

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Yeah … to be, to say, "This is the expectation of us right now-

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Yeah … is we're going to sit and have a conversation." Yeah.

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And we're gonna find a way to do that, whatever, you know?

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Yeah.

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And I think it's nice in a way.

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I think there's… Like, the idea of forced conversation, whatever the

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context is, is really kind of like, it seems weird, but it's actually,

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um… Like, maybe I'll have some like fucking crazy person in here

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at some point who I'll be like- Yeah … "I'm never doing that again."

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But, um, but yeah, it's been really…

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And I've reconnected with like old friends that I haven't- Mm … talked to

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in a while just because, well, you know.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um- Yeah, it's interesting 'cause, um, whenever we sat down like, "Oh, that,

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that, that is weird. Can we just have a conversation?" But as we're more

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into the conversation, I see how that would be amazing for relationships.

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Yeah.

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For couples.

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Mm-hmm.

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For, you know, I, I w- Right away as soon as you told me about your nephew,

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I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I would love to have conversation with my brother's

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children." 'Cause it's impossible to have a conversation with them.

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But you're making a podcast.

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And we're making a podcast.

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Yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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It's 'cause they get that.

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Yeah, exactly.

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They know how to do that game.

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Yeah.

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They understand media, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Right.

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And it's just their filter.

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Sure.

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This is where this is their cup of coffee, you know?

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I'm gonna have a coffee and- Absolutely … they're gonna like, "Let's do the

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podcast." And the other part is just like it w- if it was a normal conversation,

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like if we had, if it, if it lulls, like- The conversation has to continue.

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Do you know what I'm saying?

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Yeah.

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Like, that's a big part of it, too.

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Yeah.

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Like, we're gonna talk for a little while, and we're gonna talk for at

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least this, you know… And yeah.

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And so the conversat- I have a list of questions just in

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case at some point, you know.

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Mm. Um, but yeah, it's, it's made me think.

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I've done a lot of, like, interesting thoughts about just conversations and

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the nature of the fact that this is the context, that it needs a context- Mm-hmm

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is kind of both great and also sad in the world we're living in, right?

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Um- Yes, and … because we need the context of… Yeah.

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Yes, and.

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Right.

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You know?

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Well, improv.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

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It's yes, and, 'cause then you're actually preparing.

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Yeah.

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You prepared, so you're just here, not just taken for granted.

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Sure.

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And I'm sitting here not taken for granted, and I'm like, "Oh, okay.

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This is, this is- Yeah … I'm enjoying this," you know?

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Yeah.

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And people are very… It's surprising.

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Like, I've just reached out to random people that, some people that

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I've just randomly are interested in and just reach out and ask,

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and they're like, usually, yes.

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And it's so interesting to me, 'cause I'm, I'm not sure why I expect them to say

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no, but, like, it speaks to me in a way that, like, people wanna talk, you know?

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Yeah.

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People wanna… Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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So- And, and that's just gives another good excuse, if you really think about

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it, to actually have a long conversation.

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In real world, you would just, you know, disappear in the phone,

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disappear in awkward moment or a pause where, "Oh, I'm gonna go now." Yeah.

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No, let's just stay in this awkwardness.

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Mm-hmm.

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It is awkward.

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It is uncomfortable.

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Nobody likes pauses, you know?

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Right.

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But you also don't wanna over chat it.

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And right now, even just sitting here and reflecting on, it's like, yeah,

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it's, you know… I will remember this.

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Oh, it's good to know.

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See?

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I will, you know?

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Maybe, like, in 10 years, I'm gonna be having, like, many podcast or, you know.

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But, but I will remember this one 'cause this is a new experience.

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Oh, well, I'm glad.

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And this is not type of experience of, like, well, you know,

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I'm not being expert- Yeah.

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No.

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I- … on something … yeah.

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I'm just being a human- Yeah … with all my flaws and- Yeah … you know,

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all my, all my stuff, just like you are.

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That's what I want the thing to be.

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Yeah.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, I appreciate you saying that.

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Mm-hmm.

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Absolutely.

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Um, the last question that I ask people is, uh, what do

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you think happens when we die?

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You know what?

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Mm-hmm.

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You just asked me this question, and I see in the hallway this light

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you have with like a rainbow-ish.

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Oh, yeah, I got the Temu.

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Yeah.

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Temu.

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'Cause you can kind of see it into the- Mm-hmm … it's almost like

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the Like, uh, f- flying in the spaceship into the black hole.

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Like a vortex.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's exactly what it is.

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Yes.

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This is, that would be my answer.

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Oh, all right.

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The answer is the- Is the, the… Yeah … the vortex.

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It's just the, like, yeah, whatever that is.

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I'll accept that answer.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's the most succinct answer we've gotten so far, and I appreciate that.

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What does it mean, succinct?

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Um, short and, short and sweet.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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What made you pa- particular this kind of question?

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I don't know.

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Honestly, it kind of, I don't really like it, honestly, but I feel like I

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should have some q- question that I…

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For some reason I feel like there should be some question that I ask

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everybody at the end of the podcast.

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Mm. You know what I mean?

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Mm-hmm.

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I don't know why.

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Maybe it's 'cause I listen to too many podcasts and that-

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Mm-hmm … seems to be a thing.

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So yeah, and then when I was doing the first one, that was the answer

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I landed on at the last minute, and that was, uh, the question rather,

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and so I've been sticking with it.

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But really, open to suggestions on, on, uh, end questions, because I can, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Oftentimes we get to the death thing before the end.

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Weirdly enough.

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Yeah.

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Which is good.

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We haven't, we didn't do it this time.

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That's- Yeah … that speaks good.

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Um… I, I think this, the what inspires you could be a, a fun, a fun,

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uh, add, addition to the questions, to the list of the questions.

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What inspires you?

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Yeah, that's on the list.

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All right, what inspires you then?

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Uh, I'm saying, like, in, in general, like, for, for your list, for sure.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I think it's, you know, 'cause we often, you know, go into like what's

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wrong, what's this, what's that.

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Like, what inspires you?

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What brings you joy?

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What do you, you know?

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Yeah, it's hard because we s- we so rarely sit and reflect, at least

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I don't… I mean, it's not a, um, it's not a pro-reflection world

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we live in right now, you know?

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Mm. It's not a pro, um, so- Yeah, like contemplative sitting.

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Yeah, no, it's not a lot of that.

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Um, not a lot of that.

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You have to really, you have to do it, you have to make an effort to do it- Mm

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as opposed to.

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I have a friend who's on, like, a 10-day silent retreat right now.

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Mm. And I am curious to know- … um, because I don't think I could.

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No phone, nothing.

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No talking.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Not even exercise.

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Like, you- Is it with Osman?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Have you done this?

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Uh-huh.

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How long have you done it for?

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11 days.

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Wow.

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Basically it's 11, like, I think you go 10 days and then, like, 11 day you're still

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there, you're- Right … catching up and- Right … integrating and… I feel like

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it's like a first three, four, five days that you're, like, resisting and then

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eventually something, something breaks, but that's how I feel like I would do it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's all over the place.

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Yeah.

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There's no like- Yeah … exact, like- It's, I, it, like, I could do,

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like, three days I feel like maybe.

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But really, it really, um… And that's, what does that say about me,

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that I am so afraid of just being with myself for three days straight?

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I don't know Well, let's do the…

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Let's put this way.

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Remember what, when, and how you do it.

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Is it really about being afraid?

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And it's like that's why Vipassana is done the way it's done.

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You go with other people.

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Right.

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You know, you know, you sharing the experience.

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This is very important.

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You are in this thing together.

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Even if you don't talk to them about it, you're still- You know

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it All right People will cry.

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People will, like, first thing that people usually do, they escape.

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They run away.

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Right They go into the woods, and then they come back.

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Some people don't come back.

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Right Right They just off into the woods forever.

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Forever Yeah, exactly.

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And, you know, you can take it as a defeat, or you can just like, "Hey,

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maybe this tool, it's not the tool."

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You know, what, when, and how, right?

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Yeah So maybe what is not this, maybe it's something else.

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This is where we get sometimes stuck in, like, those, oh, if it's

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a cold plunge, then for everyone.

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Maybe it's not.

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Right You know, if it's sauna, is it for every season?

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No, maybe it's not.

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If this is, you know, hormonal therapy, is it for everyone?

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No.

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So, you know, like, so this is your choice.

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You know, do you need to do 10 days, or you can do just one and start with that?

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Right.

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Right.

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I think some people probably go into experience like that, like, with

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expectations on themselves that they have to do this for themselves, and I think

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that that's when they get into a, a spiral of feeling defeated and, you know- Yeah

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et cetera, et cetera.

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Yeah Um, when you're expecting yourself to be able to… Have you

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ever had any, um, uh, psychedelic, profound psychedelic experiences?

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I did.

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Do you wanna talk about it?

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I would say this way.

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Till this day, I think still that more of people, relationships, and things that

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I've done myself been more transformative for me than psychedelic journeys.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Um, but there was one very profound that, um, kind of just I remember till this day.

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And, um, I'm still doing the same mistakes, and I'm still kind of

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like- Right … following my own patterns- Right, right … you know?

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I think it's, for me at least, the way I see it is of opening,

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expanding, m- m- just, just bigger.

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It's,

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it's a- Like, just whatever it is, it just gets- It zooms out.

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It zooms out.

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It zooms… Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I just… Yeah.

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Or zooming all the way in into something.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Right, right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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The zooming out is the thing I always get.

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Like, I'm able to see the big picture in a way that I've never seen it before.

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And I'm like- Mm-hmm … oh, this is like interactions become so

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transparent in a strange way.

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Like, it all becomes very, um… Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Like, um… It's like seeing from some sort of a bird's-eye view or something.

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Mm-hmm.

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I don't know how to put it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, Nastya, thank you so much for coming in.

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I really appreciate it.

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It was a wonderful conversation.

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I feel like I get to know you better, and I really love that, so.

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My pleasure.

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Yeah.

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I loved it.

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Thank you.

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I already said it.

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Thanks for coming in.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Thank you so much.

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And thanks for being, like, a killer yoga teacher.

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Do you wanna promote anything, by the way, while you're here?

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I don't know if… I don't know.

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I'm a somatic therapist here in Columbus, Ohio.

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All right.

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And, um, I'll share the link of my website.

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Okay.

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We'll put it in the show notes.

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There you go.

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All right.

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In the show notes.

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That's how we do it.

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Cool, cool, cool.

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That's how we do it.

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And if you ever get a chance, if you're in Columbus, Ohio, go to one of her classes.

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I love them.

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Thank you so much.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Thank you

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And that was Anastasija Kacena.

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Truly grateful that she was open to just sitting down and having a conversation

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with a random yoga student, and that she seemed to enjoy it as much as I did.

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So thank you, Stasia.

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It was wonderful to get to know you beyond the yoga teacher you that I knew before.

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You can learn more about Anastasija and her yoga and somatic therapy

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offerings at sijasomatics.com.

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That's sijasomatics.com.

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And you can follow her on Instagram at

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anastasija_kacena.

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That's A-N-A-S-T-A-S-I-J-A underscore K-A-T-C-Y-N-A.

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I'll put all that and everything else in the show notes.

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You can follow this podcast on Instagram at onefjefpod, and you can email

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the podcast at onefjefpod@gmail.com.

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And now you can call and leave a voicemail for the podcast that I will probably

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play on a future show at 669-241-5882.

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So that's exciting.

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That number again is 669-241-5882.

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Tell me who you are, your thoughts on the show, your biggest fears, what

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inspires you, et cetera, et cetera.

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Anything at all will bring me joy.

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Finally, please take a moment to write a quick review of this podcast on whatever

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platform you're listening on, or just give it five stars or subscribe, whatever.

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Any kind of engagement helps tell the all-powerful algorithms that this

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show is worthy to boost or whatever it is that the algorithms actually do.

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It helps.

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I think I've run out of ways to express my gratitude to you, the

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listener, for continuing to put this show in your ear holes every week.

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So I'll just keep it simple.

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Thank you so much for listening.

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I would give you all a big hug if I could

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I'll see you next week

Speaker:

Very good, Jeffrey

About the Podcast

Show artwork for onefjef
onefjef
Expat life in Mexico City: interviews and solo dispatches about language, culture, and what it really feels like to leave your life behind and move to CDMX.

About your host

Profile picture for Jef Taylor

Jef Taylor

Jef Taylor is an editor, filmmaker, and reluctant grown-up. He hosts onefjef, where he talks to people (and sometimes himself) about work, purpose, and the strange ways life unfolds. Before podcasting, he spent years shaping other people’s stories—now he’s telling his own.